Joy Levy Alkalay

Tanzer: Joy, I would like to ask you about your perceptions of the Jewish community when you first came to Portland.
ALKALAY: When I first came to Portland and got to know the Jewish Community as much as I got to know it, it was very stable. There were not too many newcomers in the community. Maybe this had something to do with it because after World War II many people came, I feel, because of the state and because of the city. Through the last 10 or 15 or 20 years the community has changed. I have a feeling that the makeup of the community has changed. It is no longer the same families who have grown up here or have been here for years and decades – for a long, long time. It is people who come, stay, move away. It is a very fluid community. It has grown a lot. I have a feeling that it has grown, but it isn’t the same people who make up the community.

Tanzer: When you came here did you feel that it was an open or a closed Jewish community?
ALKALAY: It was pretty much closed.

Tanzer: Who were the people that you initially met?
ALKALAY: The people that I initially met were the people who met me through the social agencies. People at work.

Tanzer: And what did you do when you came here initially?
ALKALAY: I worked as a secretary to David Robinson in the ADL office of B’nai B’rith. He was my first link to the Jewish community.

Tanzer: What type of a link was he? And to what part of the community?
ALKALAY: Through the work that the ADL did, I got to know about the various human rights of people in the state. Not necessarily Jewish people; all minorities and all people. The link to the Jewish community itself was not very strong. I met people, and through some people that I met I got into the women’s chapter of B’nai B’rith. I got to the old Jewish Community Center a couple of times and met a few people there, but I can see now that the Jewish Community Center wasn’t organized for receiving newcomers into the community. There wasn’t much of an effort to integrate people into the community, to [help] them get to know… You were just left to your own devices, more or less, at that time.

Tanzer: Tell me, how were you placed in the job with David Robinson?
ALKALAY: That was through the agency. 

Tanzer: Through which agency?
ALKALAY: At that time it was not called the Jewish Family and Child Services; it was the United Service for New Americans. I first was placed on a one-day job with Zidell Corporation. I was there a couple of days, but then I had to leave because of a death in the family When I came back the job was taken, and they told me they were sorry. So I left and went back to the agency, and they said, “Well, because you have worked for JDC, maybe there is an opening. There is a request by the ADL for a secretary.” So I went for an interview, and that is how I got the job with David Robinson

Tanzer: Tell me about David Robinson.
ALKALAY: David Robinson was a very fascinating character. When you got to know him, he was a lovely person. At first you were really awed sometimes by David Robinson. He was very abrupt. But when you got to know him, you could see the drive the man had, the wisdom that he had, and the energies that he had. He was very much loved. People used to come to the office, of all stations in life, that he had helped in some way or another, either personally or because of legislation that he tried to get, or he tried to get them a job or right the wrong that was done to them. I have good memories of him.

Tanzer: If I remember, he had a legal background.
ALKALAY: Yes, he was a lawyer, even though he used to tell me how he was the first member of a painting union, a house painter. I don’t know how he got into that, but he was very proud of it. He was in a union, a house painting union. I don’t know those details. He told me also [about] when his parents homesteaded — it wasn’t in Oregon; it was someplace else — he had quite a history, an old American history to his family.  He was very active, and he told me that when he went to Washington during World War I to lobby for something (I think it was for the union), somebody told him he should become a lawyer. That is how, I think, he got into the legal [profession].

Tanzer: Do you remember his activities on behalf of integration?
ALKALAY: Yes. When I came to work for him, in the summer of 1950, it was the start. First — there was discrimination in hotels here, and there was one bill that was put through about [that] there should not be discrimination in hotels. And there should not be discrimination in clubs, like the Multnomah Club or the University Club. Then there was the Fair Employment Practices Act; there was a very great campaign that was launched, and it was very successful.

Tanzer: Do you remember a luncheon that David was supposed to have had at the old Multnomah Hotel with a banker and one of the black leaders?
ALKALAY: I don’t remember that.

Tanzer: It was the first instance where, apparently, they took a black leader into the hotel. At first they refused to seat them.
ALKALAY: I remember he worked closely with a lot of Black leaders, and he worked with the Urban League very closely. I don’t remember that particular incident, no. I remember him telling about [how] during World War II he tried to accommodate … A man came to Portland. He was in uniform, an officer, and he was Jewish. He apparently wanted to stay overnight. I don’t know if it was the Portland Hotel or what hotel it was at the time. When he phoned from the station, they said yes, there was a room. [But] when he got there, he gave his name and they told him that they were sorry, they couldn’t accommodate him [which he thought was] because the name was Jewish. And this was a man in the uniform of the United States. This was one of the things, I think, that triggered it.

Tanzer: What kind of a Jew was David Robinson?
ALKALAY: That is interesting, too. I think that as a young man he was not a very observant Jew. As he put it, they were Jewish, but they were – I wouldn’t say “assimilated” – but they were not observant or kosher Jews, not in that sense. I think the older he became, the more he became very much involved in the community and especially in the temple here. He was president of the temple later on. I think that he appreciated his religion in later life, as so many of us.

Tanzer: What about his relationship with other leaders of the Jewish community?
ALKALAY: He had a very good relationship. He had very many national relationships, a lot of people. In the Jewish community, of course, but then I remember that he had great relationships with lots of labor leaders. There were anecdotes that he told about the man who was a great labor leader in San Francisco. I think he was indicted, too, one time.

Tanzer: Harry Bridges?
ALKALAY: Yes, Harry Bridges. So he had connections.

Tanzer: Do you remember anything particular about the Fair and Planning Processes legislation here in Portland?
ALKALAY: Yes, because we worked on the campaign here and in Salem, and I got to know quite a few people in the Jewish community here. Women that I see here now [who] were very involved in that campaign.

Tanzer: Who were some of them?
ALKALAY: I don’t recall now that you ask me. I couldn’t say. 

Tanzer: For the most part what I am wondering is if these women have still kept up their interest in social action.
ALKALAY: Yes, there was one in particular. You should interview Hershel [Tanzer] on that.

Tanzer: I am going to! I am going to interview my husband. But the ’50s were so critical in terms of this kind of social legislation.
ALKALAY: There was one woman who was there all the time, but I don’t remember.

Tanzer: That doesn’t matter. I am very interested in David as a person.
ALKALAY: He was quite a character. I was terrified when I first met him; it was the strangest thing. When he interviewed me, he said, “One thing that I don’t tolerate here is anyone to discriminate against anyone else. You know what our business is like. If you have any other ideas, you can’t work for me.” And I was just terrified [laughing].

Tanzer: Of all people! For you to discriminate [jesting]!
ALKALAY: I was very shocked. Why is he telling me that? But we got along very well.

Tanzer: So David was very early on Affirmative Action, then. Now you were at the ADL office from 1950 until?
ALKALAY: Until the office closed here in Portland. David retired because he got very ill, sick, old. The office was almost liquidated here, and then it opened again in 1956. It was a small office. Then it finally moved completely to Seattle. They had one girl here in the office just as a representative. 1956 was when I so-to-say lost my job, and it was through David that I got to the temple.

Tanzer: So you started at temple in ’56.
ALKALAY: March of ’56.

Tanzer: So this will be 25 years. Oh, my goodness. So tell me about the temple when you first came, [and about] Julius Nodel.
ALKALAY: Nodel was the rabbi. Elsa Loewenberg was the executive secretary, and there was one other secretary in the outer office. I just started in with anything, a little bit of bookkeeping, a little bit of this and that, secretarial work. Later on I worked for Rabbi Nodel, and then when Elsa got sick I got to do some of her job. And that is how I started. It is that way with everything, you start the bottom. You do a little bit of everything.

Tanzer: Tell me what this congregation was like when you began.
ALKALAY: This congregation was not as large as it is now. I think the membership at that time was closer to 450 or 500 family units. There were not as many activities as we have now. Certainly programmatically the most important things were services, the usual religious school, and the various lifecycle [events] like confirmation, high school graduation, the holidays. It was very set. You knew exactly what was happening. Not that you don’t know now what is happening, but [when] you add so many things. [For example,] social action then was a new word. I don’t think there was much of a social action program. At that time, more or less, the social action, as it was perceived then, was done by the brotherhood. The brotherhood was the one that used to bring the speakers. I remember Richard Nixon spoke here at the temple, too, at one time, when he was campaigning for vice president or something.

Tanzer: That was when he opposed John F. Kennedy?
ALKALAY: Was it that late? No. He was running with Eisenhower, for vice president. Yes, He was running with Eisenhower. That was a long time ago.

Tanzer: What was the orientation of the congregation at that time? And when I say “orientation” I mean in terms of…?
ALKALAY: Jewish. When I first came here, most of the families had a German background. Already by the time that I got to this congregation it was a little bit, you would say, “watered down” or not as “pure” German as maybe it was when the congregation was first founded. You already had the Shemansky family here. They certainly were not German and were an integral and an honored part of the congregation. A pillar of the congregation, lets put it this way. And you had other people here who were not purely of German background. They had some of Russian background [too].

Tanzer: Do you remember the names of some of those families?
ALKALAY: David Robinson, I think, was one of the first presidents who was not of pure German background. He was of Russian background. I remember the name Monte Bettman; he was Bohemian, I suppose, German-Bohemian.

Tanzer: Were the Hervins active, too?
ALKALAY: Carrie Hervins. Yes, she was quite active. I don’t think that he was, but she was quite active at the time. The Lautersteins, who was Felice Driesen’s mother, was very active. The Gevurtzes were very active, Anita Gevurtz. 

Tanzer: And the Swetts?
ALKALAY: The Swetts? They were cousins of David Robinson. They were related to him. No, not that much [not very active]. No. I think that Mrs. Swett had already passed on at the time. Some of the names at that time –

Tanzer: – Was [first name?] Goldsmith still alive when you came?
ALKALAY: No. But her son Gerson Goldsmith, of course, he was very active at that time, and his father. 

Tanzer: But they were among the German Jews.
ALKALAY: Yes. They were the ones who got David Robinson interested because they were great friends. The law practice was at the time in the same building, I remember. Arthur Goldsmith was a great friend of David Robinson.

Tanzer: So it was just at that point that the congregation was really changing from the strong German Jewish influence.
ALKALAY: The congregation opened; there were a lot of people who affiliated here who may have had more Conservative or Orthodox ties before. I don’t know whether it was due to the religious school or because of their children that they preferred to affiliate with this congregation.

Tanzer: How about Jules? Was he influential in bringing people in?
ALKALAY: Yes, he was. He was here for ten years. The congregation did grow quite a bit [in that time]. He attracted people with his oratory and with his book reviews, which were quite famous. He attracted a lot of people in the community with his book reviews. The temple was packed. At that time there was a book that came out, and I am very bad with titles… It was one of those books that had a history of the Roman times.

Tanzer: Great Ages and Ideas of the Jewish People.
ALKALAY: Yes. And he reviewed all of these. People liked it very much.

Tanzer: Yes, he was very provocative and very controversial. I am also interested in the fact that he was very strongly Zionistic.
ALKALAY: And he brought that to temple. Very much so. Before that time people here certainly were not Zionistic.

Tanzer: And you were here at the time, Joy, and could experience the controversy yourself, and that is what I would like to hear about.
ALKALAY: His sermons, his expressions brought all this in. He tried to educate the congregation, and with time it changed. The whole concept changed. The whole makeup here changed. Not that everywhere it is accepted, even not now, but there was a time when it was anathema. You didn’t talk about Israel, either; everything was very much pro-American. There was a time when… What is this other Jewish organization, that is so much…?

Tanzer: Anti-Zionist? The Council for Judaism.
ALKALAY: That was quite active here at the time.

Tanzer: Yes, I know that, and he denounced them. Were you here that evening?
ALKALAY: Yes. I don’t remember all of it, but I know that he denounced it. It was quite a controversy. We even had at that time board members who were members of the Council for Judaism.

Tanzer: And what happened?
ALKALAY: I think they were not very happy with him. There was quite a controversy.

Tanzer: Did they resign?
ALKALAY: No, they didn’t. They are still here [laughs]. They are still members of the congregation. I don’t know whether they changed their views. Maybe they are a bit older. It was quite a stronghold for the Council for Judaism.

Tanzer: If I remember correctly, the head of the Council for Judaism was coming on a Sunday. He was going to be here. There was going to be some kind of a meeting, and that Friday night from the pulpit Jules denounced the Council for Judaism and the concept. A number of members of the congregation got up and walked out.
ALKALAY: Yes, that they did.

Tanzer: And you were here for the repercussions? What happened?
ALKALAY: I don’t remember that well, but I think that there were not really very many repercussions as such. There is always a big excitement in a teacup, and then everything calms down.

Tanzer: Were there congregation resignations?
ALKALAY: No, not really.

Tanzer: Do you remember anybody on the board confronting Rabbi Nodel?
ALKALAY: He may have had discussions with them, but I’m not aware of that. Of course, there was freedom of the pulpit here, and there still is. So he had his right to do that.

Tanzer: Do you perceive that his tenure here as rabbi changed the congregation?
ALKALAY: Yes, it changed it. I think that even though many people have said of him that he was pompous – I don’t want to get personal, but they said it – I think that he brought a lot of sophistication. He educated people. Intellectually. And he contributed a lot to the thinking of the congregation. Because of the things he talked about, he kept people thinking. Because he was a very good speaker, he attracted a lot of people. He not only fascinated people, but he gave them a lot to think about. In the short time that he was here he contributed a lot.

Tanzer: Did the leadership change perceptibly during the time that he was here?
ALKALAY: No, I think it has changed more now. At that time the leadership was more middle-aged, older. The more established members of the congregation were the leadership, whereas now you can find a greater mix of people. Whether you are established or not, economically, financially, professionally, it doesn’t matter. There is a greater mix in the leadership. Anyone who voices an interest or who wants to contribute something is welcome. At that time, I think, the board was held in awe. Certain people, sometimes it was even certain families, reproduced themselves on the board. It was always the father, the son, and so on and so forth.

Tanzer: Can you think of who those families were?
ALKALAY: The Durkheimers were on the board. George Fleet. The Savinars. The Savinars, when they came that was an innovation because that again was not a German family. And the Bettmans were on [the board]. There were other doctors as well. The Lowensons. So there were quite a few families.

Tanzer: The leadership has changed the past few years. Now who are the leaders of the temple?
ALKALAY: Certainly.

Tanzer: Are the German Jewish families still in the leadership? That is what I am asking.
ALKALAY: No. I wouldn’t say so.

Tanzer: What has happened to them?
ALKALAY: I don’t know. The children maybe are not getting involved. Some of them are, but they may be involved in other organizations and have not come back to temple. Maybe they will at a later age. Some have moved away. As I said, the congregation has changed; you have to give other people a chance. There are different members, different people.

Tanzer: What I am trying to ascertain is what the family and individual changes were in the membership of this congregation.
ALKALAY: There are a lot of people who have moved to the city who have affiliated with the congregation. That has maybe something to do with the demographic changes. People have moved to Portland and to Oregon. A lot of people have moved from other Reform congregations and have affiliated with this Reform congregation, or have found that this was the congregation they wanted to affiliate with, whether they were Conservative or Orthodox before. Maybe the younger generation have a greater attraction to Reform Judaism and have affiliated with this congregation. Again, as I said, maybe if they had small children, the attraction of the religious school and the programs that this congregation offered them. Anyway, the membership has changed inasmuch that so many newcomers have come to this community from so many different backgrounds, from all professions.

Tanzer: What is the size of the membership now?
ALKALAY: It is now 900 families, 900 family units.

Tanzer: Has there been a growth in the ’60s? In the ’70s?
ALKALAY: The growth was in the ’60s. There was tremendous growth in the ’60s through the ’70s. Now it is still growing, but there are some losses, too. There are losses because people move away, and there are some losses because people die. But it evens itself out, or we even gain more than we lose. We went from 700 families to 900.

Tanzer: What is the composition of these families?
ALKALAY: They are younger now. They are younger families. We have had a tremendous influx of younger families with children. We also have lots of singles. And singles with children, divorced or separated people, widowed. We can also see that our older population has grown. Our senior citizens. We are becoming again a more middle-aged congregation. We had a tremendous amount of older people and more younger people but fewer middle-aged people. Now it is changing again a little bit. But the younger people comprise about 200 families and [that segment] is growing. By younger I mean under 36 years of age.

Tanzer: Would you say that these are for the most part Eastern European?
ALKALAY: No. The younger people that are coming, you can’t tell. They are not children of older congregants. They are children who have moved here from California or New York or from the East Coast. Their background is hard to tell. Maybe their grandfathers or grandmothers may have been Eastern European. I don’t know. 

Tanzer: Are there still active members from the old German-Jewish families?
ALKALAY: There are a few. Yes.

Tanzer: Who are they?
ALKALAY: As you mentioned before, the Feldmans, the Durkheimers… What other German names are there? I can’t think of any now. [It gets hard.] Lipman would be part of the Shemansky family; the Savinars are not that active anymore. The others who are active, I’m not sure from the German families. I’m thinking of Ruth Semler, for example, her family. We would not classify that as German, right? I don’t think so. There are not that many left.

Tanzer: Where did they go?
ALKALAY: I think that their children, with the exception of a few who married Jews, have married American non-Jews. And they are not living in this area. Maybe eventually if they would come back they would join the congregation.

Tanzer: So what changes do you perceive have happened to the community in the last ten years, in the 1970s?
ALKALAY: I think a lot of younger people have come to Oregon in search of work, new horizons. Younger professionals, younger lawyers, lots of younger people have come, and the congregation has become younger, and from all backgrounds.

Tanzer: What change has this made in the programming?
ALKALAY: I think it has improved it. It offers more for many more people. Let me explain. Multi-faceted programming. It gives more opportunities for everybody’s tastes. If you want a formal service or an informal service. If you want music or you don’t like music. Some people like to only hear the rabbis give a sermon (that would be the older generation), whereas the others want to participate more. They are experimenting with all kinds of things that people might like, like children’s services.

Tanzer: Would you say that the religious observance of this congregation is less reformed and more traditional?
ALKALAY: Well, I don’t know what you would call reformed or more traditional. People are seeking. I have the feeling that people, especially younger people, are seeking. They may not look for ritual Reform or classical Reform. Maybe they feel that classical Reform is not what is for them. They may go back to Orthodoxy. It’s a process of evolution, in a way. People are still seeking, and they are really not sure what they like. Whether they like to hear more Hebrew or less Hebrew. Whether they like more songs or less music or more music or more participation. They want to be talked to or they want to talk with the group. Everybody wants their style, and they have to find one style because it is quite a mixture of people. People are seeking, and they are being given the opportunity to express themselves. In the end, I think that the leadership, the rabbis, will find a way. This may be the best way because you can cater to a lot of people, but I think that it is also wrong to cater to everybody’s whims and wishes because then you water down the whole thing. You have to give some direction and say, “This is the way that it is done at Beth Israel. If you like it, this is what we offer.” It is much less rigid now than it was 20 or 30 years ago.

Tanzer: OK. That is what I wanted to hear. Now, in terms of a financial base within the community, there must be some basis for comparison of memberships in terms of generosity or willingness to give. I would like to hear your comments about that.
ALKALAY: As with all things, you cannot establish precedents and say, “This is so; this isn’t so.” Everybody is an individual, and every person acts differently. You can’t say, “This group does it this way, and this group does it another way.” Of course, times have changed, too, and the needs of people have changed, and their income has changed. People by and large are quite generous, and I think they have continued to be generous in this congregation. But again, I think maybe the younger generation is not as generous as the older generation was. Maybe by the time they establish themselves more. Maybe it is a sign of the times. Maybe they have different interests wherein lies their generosity to which they feel a greater duty. For example, some people may feel that they want to give to something that they would call a living thing, maybe to research for a disease rather than to give to a congregation. Their priorities may be different. It is hard to judge. But by and large I can see that the younger people have to learn that the support of the institution is important. The older generation maybe had a different feeling for it.

Tanzer: In terms of something as basic as bookkeeping. You have been doing that for 25 years. Has it become a different type of job in terms of collecting the dues and setting the dues standards?
ALKALAY: It has changed, certainly. It is a more complex job than it was 25 years ago. It was more cut and dried at the time. You knew what it was going to be. The dues didn’t change that often.

Tanzer: What was the dues structure 25 years ago?
ALKALAY: I don’t recall now exactly, but it was much, much less. It didn’t change every year, but now with the needs and the inflation and so on, it has increased in the last 10 years tremendously. It has increased almost two-fold. But that, of course, has to do with the way that we live. Our money standards have changed and costs have changed.

Tanzer: Also there are a lot more programs now.
ALKALAY: We have a lot more programs we have to maintain. It costs more to maintain the building and to repair. Anything gets old, and you have to repair it. We offer more. We offer a greater staff, and you have to be competitive with your staff. It is quite a large operation. That certainly has changed. I think that it is harder now, maybe, to go out and raise funds. It has to be on a one-to-one basis, on a personal basis, because people are more reluctant. You couldn’t just do it over the telephone. People don’t think that is the job of the board. I think it is harder on them now.

Tanzer: Do you have people who are unwilling to pay their…?
ALKALAY: You find a few, yes. But by and large, we are doing very well in that way. There are a few who are unwilling to pay their weight, but there may be reasons. If there are mitigating circumstances, financial circumstances, and they come to the board and say, “I would like to be a member of this temple and I cannot afford to pay that,” that is taken into consideration. It is not like a social club where if you don’t like it, get out. No, there is no such thing. But you do find also members who may not want to pay who could well afford to. That is a different question. There again you have to have the personal contact and the personal know-how of the member who knows and can talk to the person. Most of them are friends, and it is easy for them to get to, “Why don’t you want to do this for temple?”

Tanzer: Do you find that when the children, the young people return to the community that they become members?
ALKALAY: Again, it is up to the individual. You find people who come back and voluntarily feel that they want to become members, and they apply for membership. And again, you find some [cases] where their father or their mother takes a membership and asks, “I would like my daughter or my son or my grandchildren to go to religious school. So I want them to be members.” So you get the feeling that even though the membership is in their name, it is the parents who are behind it. Behind it insofar that they steer them into that direction. It is not, as I said, “voluntary.” But voluntary is not a good word for it. What is the word when you do it on your own?  Willingly.

Tanzer: That is what I wanted to find out. There was a time recently when you had a group of people who left this congregation in order to start their own congregation. Have they returned?
ALKALAY: Some have, a few. Not many.

Tanzer: What were their reasons for leaving?
ALKALAY: What we discussed before, the style of the service. Their reason was that they did not want to be talked to by the rabbi at all, or by anybody. They wanted to be participating in every phase of the service or the program. They wanted to feel that they were doing. But now again, I can see from what they are doing that they have found that they cannot be an entity unto themselves. They have to decide whether they want to join another national body to have some support. So they have joined the UAHC [Union of American Hebrew Congregations].

Tanzer: Where are they?
ALKALAY: They have been admitted to the UAHC last spring. They are seeking ways [to pursue] the religious education of the children. I don’t know how their program is or how they conduct the religious education of their young ones, but they feel that they don’t really need their own building.

Tanzer: Where are they meeting?
ALKALAY: They are meeting in homes still. They are also renting a church or something on [?]son Road. I’m not sure if they are still doing that. They were also at the Jewish Community Center during the High Holidays. And they have found that they have to have a structure. They have to charge dues. They have to work. I think that what they wanted to get away from in an institution or organization that they felt was oppressing them, now they are living this kind of reality and in this kind of world where they have to structure themselves also. You just cannot live in a vacuum. There are certain things that cost money, and if you have to have wine to say Kiddush, or whatever. I think that lately they’ve even had difficulty because they didn’t know whether they should buy their own burial ground. They were looking into that. I don’t know what they did about it.

Tanzer: What was the composition of that group in terms of age and financially?
ALKALAY: Financially, I think, they were of all levels. It was a mixed group, but certainly not only lower-income people. I would say that they were middle class and well-to-do. And younger, with small children. Some were the children of congregants, professionals.

Tanzer: Do they have a rabbi?
ALKALAY: I don’t think they have anybody now. They may have someone from time to time. I wouldn’t know.

Tanzer: What do they call themselves?
ALKALAY: Havurah Shalom, isn’t it?

Tanzer: I was interested in them because a good number of them came from this congregation.
ALKALAY: I think there is another group now, Kol haShofar. That was a group of very young people. I really don’t know what their makeup is – whether singles or families.

Tanzer: Where do they meet?
ALKALAY: Any place they find to. As a matter of fact, they have asked us to meet here, in the evening, informally. They like to meet, not in worship services…

Tanzer: You mean, like a Havurah group.
AAKALAY: Yes. But they are not members of the congregation, just members of the community –  students, singles, people who meet and get together. I don’t know how structured they are or what they do.

Tanzer: I am interested in these groups because I am wondering whether they do support, financially, the other institutions in the city.
ALKALAY: I don’t know whether they support the Federation or not. Whether they support any of the other groups, like Hadassah. I don’t know, but it would be interesting to know whether they do support the Federation or not.

Tanzer: Do you think that this congregation [Temple Beth Israel] is supportive of the rest of the community, Jewish institutions?
ALKALAY: Yes.

Tanzer: Does this involvement come from the members, or does it come from the direction of the rabbi?
ALKALAY: Both. Members, of course, as individuals. Sometimes members are not only members of this institution but of others, or they have friends and they interrelate.

Tanzer: The reason I ask is because at one time this congregation was known to only support this congregation and was not interested in the rest of the Jewish community.
ALKALAY: This congregation is now very much supportive of the community, but yes, you are right, in the past it was not. Now it participates in the community. It is part of the community. It is not an entity on the side.

Tanzer: I think it was the people like David Robinson and Joseph Shemansky who really opened this congregation up to the rest of the community.
ALKALAY: Yes, they did. If you name the names at the Federation, you will find a lot of people there who are from Beth Israel. You can identify that they are very good leaders of the community and doing things for the community, speaking for the community or working for the community. You find a lot of Beth Israel members.

Tanzer: That is interesting to know. Can you think of who some of these people are?
ALKALAY: I know that the Federation had Harold Pollin, Hal Saltzman, Mel Peters, all these people who identified with Beth Israel and who were there for the community. Anyway, one of the older members that we used to have was (I am going back now years), who was also very much interested in the community in his time, was Anselm Boskowitz. He was a member here and was one of the older families. He did a lot for the community.

Tanzer: He was probably one of the earliest of the Eastern Europeans.
ALKALAY: Yes, who was active at temple and who did a lot for the temple and for the community. He was active when the first building was built – the Jewish Community Center, the B’nai B’rith. The whole thing.

Tanzer: And George Fried was another one.
ALKALAY: George Fried was, yes. Now George Fried was from a Bohemian-German family, though.

Tanzer: What would your prognosis be for the future of our Jewish Community?
ALKALAY: I think that our leadership has to work very hard to keep the interest of our people in Judaism. Otherwise we lose a lot of young people. We have always worked hard, and we have always had these times of ups and downs. I think there has always been a continuous struggle within the Jewish community to perpetuate ourselves. We have to work very hard if we want to perpetuate ourselves.

Tanzer: Do you think that there is more assimilation today than at other times?
ALKALAY: The harder times become, whether economically or [otherwise], people will tend to assimilate. I think that people do take the easy way out. On the other hand, I have never understood (and maybe it’s a personal thing of mine) how many people that I can see now in these United States have been seeking Judaism, have converted to Judaism. There has been quite a growth in conversions and interest.

Tanzer: What do you see in terms of marriages?
ALKALAY: There have been a lot of intermarriages. That is why I am saying this. A lot of people just marry out of the faith.

Tanzer: What happens to them?
ALKALAY: I don’t know if they follow any religion or not. They may not. But maybe they don’t bring up their children in Judaism or maybe eventually they come back and do change. Again, it is hard to put it in figures or numbers or make statistical data out of this.

Tanzer: But look back through the years that you have been here, since you do know about the marriages, and look to see what marriages were intermarriages.
ALKALAY: There are a lot of people who have married, who have not intermarried. And a lot of people are converting to Judaism, whether they are doing it because they feel they want to or because they want to please their parents or they want to be married in a synagogue. Maybe they are very sincere about it and will continue and bring up their children in Judaism. As I said before, as there has been a great step towards assimilation, so has there been also a great surge towards the marriage partner becoming Jewish.

Tanzer: Do you see a lot of conversions that are not due to marriage?
ALKALAY: Yes. The rabbis can tell you about the increase in these courses that they have, the introduction to Judaism, how many people attend those courses. And finally, after they have attended the courses, and not only in Reform Judaism but I think in Rabbi Geller’s and Rabbi Stampfer’s congregation, convert to Judaism. And they are people who come to us from the community.

Tanzer: What are their reasons?
ALKALAY: I don’t know. I wonder myself sometimes whether it’s just philosophical reasons, whether they are attracted to the philosophy of Judaism, whether they feel that they will have a better life. Or do they feel that they will…

Tanzer: How do you feel about converts, personally?
ALKALAY: Personally? That is a long chapter. The interview isn’t going to be that long. I am very distrustful.

[TAPE 1 MISSING]

Tanzer: This is a continuation of an interview with Joy Levi Alkalay for the William E. Weiner Oral History Library’s Holocaust Project by Shirley Tanzer at Portland, Oregon, on February 15, 1976. This is tape two, side one. 
Joy, in our previous tape we spoke about your life after liberation. You had gone from [inaudible] to Milano. You and Joe were both working for the JDC. I would like to find out about life after the liberation and what work the JDC did and what work you did with the Joint Distribution Committee.
ALKALAY: The JDC was very busy in Italy, especially in Milano after the war (after the liberation) and increasingly so when the first refugees from the death camps arrived from Germany into Italy. Many were channeled through Italy. Italy became a very important point for their immigration.

Tanzer: Now were these Italian Jews?
ALKALAY: They were Polish Jews, Russian Jews, East European Jews, German Jews — anyone who had survived Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen, any of the camps. Anyone who was lucky enough to get into Italy. Some came illegally into Italy. The Italian government was very lenient. They came either by themselves or via Munchen [Munich] or Austria. They entered Italy illegally, so to say, especially when the JDC was organizing the aliyahs or the immigrations to Israel. They brought people in by truckloads. JDC trucks would go out. They had their ways. They just crossed the border with them and came into Italy, and they were listed as refugees, which they were. And [inaudible] did not object; they did not ask how they came in; they just were here. They knew what the population was in the camps. 

They had made available two large camps near Milano, and JDC rented villas or larger estates in the countryside and organized into small kibbutzim where the refugees worked together and lived together more or less in the same system as in a kibbutz. They were trained for various things. They even established schools for children who had to have some education. There was one camp where sick people were sent first for convalescence. Near [inaudible] there was a place for persons who were suffering from tuberculosis. Everything was done for their health, to make them well. There were some centers near Genoa, which made it easier to transfer people from Genoa onto the boats. They knew when a boat was ready.

Tanzer: Were these the Haganah boats?
ALKALAY: Yes. They knew when a boat was ready. They knew how many people would be leaving, and at the last minute they were told someone would be taken out of the various points; who said that they had wanted to go to Israel.

Tanzer: Now what years was this?
ALKALAY: I would say it was 1947 or ’48. The strange thing was, as you say, how did they know when something was happening? We knew about it very much by the people who came through the office, Palestinians who worked very closely with JDC. I remember some of them, and I have even read about some of them in some of the books (I can’t recall the names now) who live in Israel now. They travelled and went ahead and made the arrangements. And we also knew about that something was going to happen or a larger transport was leaving, because there were requisitions that would come into the warehouse where Joe was in charge. 

He was in charge of the warehouse staff there, like a large amount of blankets or food. And we knew that they supplied the camps with so much. It wasn’t for the camp, though. The refugees picked it up, and it was taken to the camp and then eventually to the boat. And sometimes it was sent directly to the boat. They had a very good relationship with the Italian police. They knew there were refugees and they didn’t mind. And of course there was… I wouldn’t call it bribery, but it was arranged. All the foodstuffs and the supplies came through JDC. I suppose at that time it was something that wasn’t known, and I don’t know whether it should be known now or not.

Tanzer: I have read that. It is known.
ALKALAY: I knew Sollie Meyer. He was the head in Italy. He was from a very prominent Italian family, and he worked with JDC even before the war. He has passed away since, and his son is very prominent in Jewish Affairs in [can’t hear if this is a place name or an organization – sounds like “lama”]. He must be a gentleman now, in his late 60s or 70s. We knew about money transactions, for example, to pay for certain things.

Tanzer: How was this…[answers and questions overlap here; they both speak at the same time]
ALKALAY: JDC money… to Italy via Switzerland. So we knew about that. To buy things or to prepare the way for… It was all very hush-hush. Moneys were issued through the Jewish Agency, people to get people out of Austria into Italy. All of a sudden the camp was empty, and then the next day it was full again because so many people were coming in from Germany or Austria. It was quite a job. Of course there were lots of people who stayed in camps, who did not want to go to Israel right away. Many of them wanted to go to Australia. And many wanted to go to New Zealand or the United States. Those people were coming into JDC. There was a special immigration department where they tried to find out first if they had relatives in the United States where they could get a visa through them, or how they would be able to get a visa to go to the United States. Those people stayed in camps much longer, sometimes a year or more, before they could leave.

Tanzer: And JDC did all the processing for these people? They had the roll of who was in the camp?
ALKALAY: Yes.

Tanzer: And they assigned those who were going to go on the ships to Palestine?
ALKALAY: Yes. Now, some of the camps were completely JDC controlled, so to say. There were some camps, of course, where the International Refugee Organization also was in the camp and collaborated or cooperated with JDC. The strange thing was that the Jewish population of the camps (there were camps where there were non-Jewish refugees, too). But our people always wanted to come to “The Joint.” The Joint was the magic word. They knew the Joint from Poland, from before the War. They knew what the Joint was. They would call it The Joint.

Tanzer: Did you ever see any of the ships that were leaving?
ALKALAY: Well, I did once. The only time I did I went to Taranto. That was one big port below Bari.  I went there because we sent some stuff down and I went there too. I don’t remember what it was I had to do about the stuff. But I went there. I didn’t see the people as such, but I saw the boat.

Tanzer: Do you recall the name of the boat?
ALKALAY: I don’t remember.

Tanzer: Joy, what was your specific responsibility with the Joint?
ALKALAY: Mine was in the administration department. Working with the various men who were in charge. One was Mr. Lasko, secretarial and such, and also interpreting, if they couldn’t speak Italian. Some of them spoke Yiddish and could speak with the people who came in. That issue wasn’t right; this issue wasn’t right. The clothes didn’t fit. We did have complaints, too. But it was interpreting. Also with the Italian authorities, because I spoke Italian. More or less office work. It was interesting.

Tanzer: Did you consider returning to your pre-War home?
ALKALAY: Never. Both Joe and I. He had lost both his parents; he had no one there. Our family, on my mother and father’s sides, what we knew wasn’t there. My grandmother, my aunt, and my uncle, in the meantime, in 1947, left from Yugoslavia directly for Israel. Tito had given permission then that people could leave if they wanted to. So really there was nothing for us anymore to go back to. We wanted to live not under Communism. We didn’t want to live under Communism. The only thing was, where to go?  There was consideration to go to Israel, especially after 1948 when the State was established. We never considered Australia or New Zealand or any other of those, or Canada, like many people did. Because we had heard that some people had gone to Australia and didn’t like Australia. It was very hard, harder, maybe, than other countries. And it was very far away. Israel would have been, ideally, where we wanted to go. Joe and I both considered it. But we didn’t speak Hebrew. He spoke some but it wasn’t enough. And I could read a prayer book, but I couldn’t speak Hebrew as such. The adjustment, again, may have been too much for us. 

So we decided the United States. We liked working for JDC and we liked the people we worked with. It was the natural thing to decide to come to the United States. For one reason, in 1950 we could see that the operations were becoming smaller. Lots of the people had been resettled. [We knew] we would have to start to look for a different type of job. We knew that we couldn’t settle in Italy permanently; we were not Italian citizens. We didn’t know what the Italian government would do – whether they would one day say, “Well, you can’t stay here. Why don’t you go back to Yugoslavia?” We didn’t want to do that. We didn’t know what would happen. Since then, I thought that lots of people are still in Italy. Maybe they became national citizens, if that was possible. But even so, it would have been difficult for us to stay in Italy. We did not intend to stay permanently in Italy. We thought that in the United States we would have a better chance. Fortunately we received a visa. It was through the JDC immigration department. It took about one year. We applied in 1949 and in the spring on 1950 we were asked to report to Naples.

Tanzer: Were you on a particular quota?
ALKALAY: Well, it was on a German bill. I, of course, had the Austrian quota. Joe had the Romanian quota because he was from [Aurshua], which is between Romania and Yugoslavia. I forget what you call that. Some kind of wooded… it is called something; it will come to me. His father, right after World War One, was working with corn. He was a broker, a grain broker. He was traveling there with Joe’s mother, and it happened that that was where he was born. So that was his quota.

Tanzer: Were those quotas difficult?
ALKALAY: Yes, yes. The Romanian quota was set, and there were too many candidates for the Romanian quota. You would have had to have a longer waiting period.

Tanzer: Did anyone in particular help you to get your visa?
ALKALAY: JDC. Just the immigration department of JDC.

Tanzer: When did you come to the United States?
ALKALAY: In 1950.

Tanzer: Can you describe the trip? The leaving, the voyage?
ALKALAY: Oh yes. First of all, we did not come with the UNRRA [United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration] boats. Other people had the opportunity. I don’t know if any of the people you have interviewed came via Bremen, Germany. I had a thing against Germany. I said, “I am not going through Germany. I don’t want to see that land.” Since we had worked all this time, we had some money, and we decided to pay our own way from Genoa to the United States. We went on a Class A Private Liner. 

Tanzer: What was the name of the ship?
ALKALAY: I think it was the Atlantic. I am not sure. It was a small boat; it was very nice. We found out that there were quite a few other people on it, another Jewish gentleman on his way to Chicago and another couple. But most of the people, we found out, were German refugees, non-Jewish. Like we had said before, they were ethnic Germans from other lands, like Yugoslavia, Romania, and Bulgaria, who had returned to Austria. Some went on to Canada and some to the United States. I remember we had a very lovely time on the boat because it was very relaxing for us. It was an extended holiday, and we had never spent one together. It was like a honeymoon. I remember we arrived and we went first to Nova Scotia; that was our first stop on this side of the Atlantic. It was a cold morning, a Sunday morning. I was fascinated to see the people going to church on Sunday morning. It was a small fishing place. We could see it from the boat. And the next day we arrived in New York. It was warm… and hot. It was in July, right after Independence Day, the 5th or 6th of July. We arrived in the early evening, and we had told some of our friends who had preceded us to New York that we were coming on such-and-such a date. They were waiting for us on the docks. My former rabbi (or teacher) who taught me in Vienna was in New York; even though he hadn’t seen me for some time he came and welcomed us.

Tanzer: Is this the rabbi who came to the girls’ school or is this your own?
ALKALAY: My own. My rabbi who was in Vienna, Rabbi Assail, came and welcomed us with his wife. I remember that the first thing, on the boat, before we even saw our friends; we did not go to Ellis Island. I think we were the first boat that no longer went to Ellis Island. But they boarded the ship somewhere outside, the immigration authorities. So in one of the big salons they checked our health. We had all of our medical documents with us, whether we had tuberculosis or not. They checked all of our papers issued to us by the IRO, the International Refugee Organization in Naples. It was just a formality. Nothing exciting happened there to anybody. We just went from one station to the other, but it took some time. There were many people; we didn’t know there were that many who had come via that boat. Then once we were committed to land it was almost 6:00 in the evening. The first impression I had I will never forget. It was very steep to go down from the ship; they put down those steps. I am kind of a scaredy cat, and I was scared to go down from heights. I had a coat over my arm and, I think, a small valise. And Joe was behind me, and he couldn’t help me. He was carrying something else. There was a big, burley policeman, an older man. He just came up and said, “Don’t be afraid.” I don’t know if he carried me, or whatever; he held onto me and I was down. It was really nice. It was the first time I had an experience where a policeman was a nice person.

Tanzer: What a wonderful introduction to —
ALKALAY: Yes, it was really very nice. I never forgot that. He was so friendly, you know. Then, of course, we waited until all of our luggage came out of the boat. That took sometime until they unloaded it. They had the stations there for the customs. It was almost 10:30 or 11:00 at night before we were through, and by that time we were with our friends and talking of this and that. Some of them had wanted us to stay on for a week or so and rest up and be with them and see New York. This lady arrived; she was from the United [inaudible] of Americans. She introduced herself and said she had our tickets for Portland, Oregon, and we were to leave on the train. Since we were late she had to change our reservations; the train was leaving from Pennsylvania Station some time before midnight. The friends pleaded with her to let us stay longer, that we would not stay in New York. But I think they had had some bad experiences with people who just wanted to stay in New York. They went to the office there and said they wouldn’t move anywhere else–that they were going to stay in New York. Well surely we weren’t going to stay in New York; we had no intention of staying in New York. But she just said, well, she couldn’t help us. That was it, and we had to go if we wanted the ticket. Well, we couldn’t risk it. We didn’t have that much money, you know, and we risked that we wouldn’t get the train tickets. So we said, “Fine, we’ll go.” 

I remember a hectic taxi ride from the dock to Pennsylvania Station. We hadn’t eaten anything since that noon on board ship. When we arrived at Pennsylvania Station, the train was almost leaving. Our friends said, “Fine. The train will leave and you will stay here.” But this woman, don’t know how she managed it, but the train stopped, the luggage we had there were pushed on, and we boarded the train and were gone. We didn’t even say properly goodbye to our friends. Well, it was another nice experience. It was a strange experience. I had never ridden on an American train before; it was new. When we came to, I don’t know if it was Pennsylvania or Ohio, I remember how they washed the windows on the train. That was something I had never seen before. It was like when you go through a car wash here. The train went through, and the windows were washed on the outside. The first thing was we needed a coffee or something, but there was no food service, of course, because it was midnight. The first thing in the morning people boarded the train and sold coffee or milk or sandwiches. 

Then we arrived in Chicago. That must have been the late afternoon. Now there was another problem. There was no train service between the Southern Pacific and the Union Pacific. The Union Pacific people had been on strike, and there was no train service until that day between Portland and Chicago. It had been several weeks; it was a long train strike. We were met by someone from the traveler’s aid. We had to change stations at that time. I don’t know if it is still done that way or not; they tell me it is no longer this way. We arrived at one station, and we had to drive through town until we got to the station where the Union Pacific was to take us to Portland, Oregon. So I had a glimpse of Chicago. We said goodbye to the gentleman who stayed in Chicago; he was traveling with us from New York, an elderly gentleman. We got to the station where the Union Pacific was supposed to be boarded, and the traveler’s aid lady who was taking care of us and who was very efficient (everything was done very nicely) said goodbye to us, and then we had to wait for the train. We sat there in the lobby of the train station and waited for the train. It had to be put together; so many cars because there were quite a few people who wanted to go west.

And with all the excitement and the change in climate and everything, my husband had a terrible cold, a headache, and a sore throat. I remember it was the first time I walked around and found out that you could buy aspirins where you bought newspapers and magazines. You didn’t have to go to a pharmacy. Then, I was fascinated by the magazines. I had read them all before, but I saw them all together and I thought, “You can buy them all here, and they are cheaper here than in Europe.” I bought Life and the Saturday Evening Post so that I would have something to read on the train. I was a smoker at that time, and it was nice to buy cigarettes too. Then we waited, and finally around early evening, the train was formed and was supposed to leave. We left on the Union Pacific and began our long ride to Portland, Oregon. It was that night, a day, and a night, and we got here early in the morning.

Tanzer: So two days and two nights.
ALKALAY: I know we went through Wyoming. I saw that because it was daylight and it was barren. It was terrible; so dry. Idaho was nice. I saw part of that, but it was already night. It was gorgeous to arrive here. That was the most beautiful part of the trip; when we got into the Gorge, it was early morning, approaching the Idaho/Oregon border. It was cool and fresh; it was clear, and the sun was shining. Then I saw Multnomah Falls. It was cool and a beautiful summer morning. I think the train arrived at 7:00 in Union Station.

Tanzer: That’s where you prepared for the geography and the scenery of the country.
ALKALAY: No, not the scenery. The consul in Naples had already told us it was beautiful. He described it like Switzerland, so I knew there were mountains and streams. But it really was very beautiful coming in that way. So at 7:00 in the morning we arrived at Union Station, and I think we were, with a few other people, the only ones to get off the train. Not many people arrived in the morning. We didn’t know if someone would be here or not so early in the day. But there were two ladies waiting for us, and to this day I can’t remember who they were. I think one of them said she was Mrs. Sichel.

Tanzer: Was the other one Mrs. Feves?
ALKALAY: You mean Ike Feves’ wife?

Tanzer: No, Alfie’s wife.
ALKALAY: No, I know she met Bianca. I would remember her. No, they were two elderly ladies at that time, so they may now be in their — I don’t want to put an age on anyone, but they may now be in their 70s. I’m sure they were in their middle or late 40s. I don’t know which Mrs. Sichel it could have been. It was not the Mrs. Sichel from where Bianca lived later on, because I would have recognized her. They met us, and they had a car. We drove up Broadway; I remember that, straight up Broadway. We went to the apartment that the Jewish Welfare Federation had prepared for people, for newcomers.

Tanzer: The Service for New Americans; it was a constituent agency.
ALKALAY: Yes. And it was on Montgomery Street. The apartment doesn’t exist anymore. It is Portland State University now. It was right next to where later on Bianca had the store, you know, the first store — she and her brother. It was a little two-story house, one apartment upstairs, one downstairs. Upstairs another lady lived. Her daughter later became a Rose Festival Princess, I remember. I don’t remember their name.

Tanzer: Was she Jewish?
ALKALAY: She wasn’t. But the husband was. Downstairs the apartment was for newcomers. In it there was already a family. I think this girl here, Languss. They were there, and they had a little baby. And her brother was there, who later… what’s his name? His son just had a bar mitzvah at Neveh Shalom. He has appliances. He went to Korea; he enlisted and went to Korea at the time. The war in Korea had started, and he wanted to become an American citizen as quickly as possible, and he enlisted in the Army. He was a young man at the time, with no family. He must have been 18 or 19 years old. It was Mrs. Languss’ brother. I remember we were living with her and her baby and her husband. We spent there one night. Then, of course, we knew that Bianca was here. Bianca’s husband at that time had already entered the hospital. She was lonely and was living on the East side. We asked permission. Next morning we went down to the United Service for New Americans, and we met Lillian Wexler. We asked, and Bianca asked, if we could move in with her because she was lonely. “Of course, sure.” So we only spent one night on SW Montgomery, and then we moved over and stayed with Bianca. We didn’t really do very much the first week or so because of her husband. He was already at Emanuel Hospital. We visited him, but I don’t think that he recognized us. Then he was operated on the next day or so. In the meantime, Lillian Wexler had found a job for me. She called me and I went. I worked for Zidell Explorations for about one day. It was all very confusing to me.

Tanzer: What kind of work had they found for you, Joy?
ALKALAY: Well, they knew I could type and they knew I could take short hand. I had taken shorthand before. It was office work. I got to Zidell Explorations, and Gene Veltman was there. You know him? I know him now very well but then, obviously, he was frightening. It was down there — oh, not Zidell, it was Alaska Steel! I got them mixed up. There was a little cubicle, all glass enclosed, and there was a telephone. All of the sudden, the phone rings, and I pick it up, and someone is dictating something to me over the phone [laughs]. So that is what I did. I never saw anybody. I may have worked there for two days. Then Angelo passed away. I called in and said I couldn’t come because of the funeral. We stayed with her for a few days after the funeral. When I reported back to work, they said they had already filled the position, which I wasn’t too unhappy about. I wasn’t too keen on that type of job. I wanted something where I could see people. Lillian Wexler said that she had something that I would like very much. I should go for an interview and see David Robinson. I went to the Pacific Building, on the fifth floor, and was interviewed by David Robinson.

Tanzer: Who at that time was?
ALKALAY: He was the regional director of the Anti-Defamation League. He was a very nice gentleman. He was a special personality.

Tanzer: Tell me about him.
ALKALAY: He had lots of stories to tell about himself and the Civil Rights fight and how he started here and what he did when he was a young man in the painters union. How he worked together with the founder of ADL in Chicago. My memory is failing me again. He had a specific talent for listening in and talking to people. When he interviewed me, he said, “There is one thing, you know, we don’t tolerate any discrimination in this office. If I find out that you have discriminated against someone you won’t be working here anymore.” [laughs] I said, “I won’t discriminate. Why should I discriminate?” But he was very nice. Later I was told people were frightened of him because he was a very stern man. But I didn’t feel that. I felt he was a very sweet old man. I worked for him all the time until ADL closed their offices here, so to say. We gave up after Mr. Robinson retired and it was taken over by the Seattle office and by site council.

Tanzer: How many years did you work there?
ALKALAY: Six years. 1950 to ’56.

Tanzer: What was the nature of your job?
ALKALAY: Well, I did bookkeeping work for ADL and secretarial and clerical work in the office. I worked also. I helped… of course I was involved in the campaigns that were taking place. It was a very good education for me. I found out about voting and registering once you become a citizen, and working in a political campaign. I worked in the Neuberger campaign. He was a personal friend of [inaudible] also. There were various nuances in any campaign. The Civil Rights Bill, the first one that came through, was for housing and then for unemployment in Oregon. And it was successful. That was an interesting clerical job. 

Tanzer: Do you remember any particular cases that dealt with antisemitism?
ALKALAY: There were some. They were being investigated. I know there were some with employment, which then later on were turned over to the Bureau of Labor. Discrimination in housing also. Sometimes people came and complained. And when it became law, they were investigated by the office. We knew also of people who were disseminating anti-Semitic literature, and we tried to find out where these came from, and who they were. Stuff like that. And in 1957 Mr. Robinson retired. First he semi-retired, but he did maintain an office at his home. He was not very well. Then they started a smaller office downtown that was kept on for a few months. I knew that my position was terminated. I had asked Mr. Robinson to recommend me where I could get another job. He said they would need someone at Congregation Beth Israel; he told me to go there and apply. He had called before I went. They just needed someone for a secretarial position, and I was hired; I have been here ever since. 

Tanzer: Who hired you?
ALKALAY: At that time the executive secretary was Elsie Loewenberg. Nodel was the rabbi here, and I came here on a Saturday morning right after services. The rabbi had just concluded services. She had been talking to me, and the rabbi talked to me; they said, “Oh sure, welcome aboard.” And there I was.

Tanzer: That was what year?
ALKALAY: 1956, in March.

Tanzer: So you have worked here for almost 20 years.
ALKALAY: Yes.

ALKALAY: …secretary to the rabbi and also office secretary. Gradually, I worked. When Elsie Loewenberg left and then [inaudible] left, Celia Nesman became the executive secretary. I had a very nice and good relationship with Celia. I think I can say I learned lots from her. I was able to help her with what was going on with Temple. I gradually took over a lot of responsibilities that pertained to administration. Then when Celia left, Jen Enkelis became executive secretary. By that time I was working as the accountant for the Temple and collaborated with the treasurer on the financial part of the Temple plus keeping all the books and the budgets. Also I started to do supervision of the maintenance of the building and of the personnel. I worked very closely with the chairman of the cemetery committee, and I know about the work of the cemetery operations as well. 

So when Jenny left, or retired, the board decided that it would be too much for one person to do everything (plus I always remained secretary to Rabbi Rose, and that means that I take care of his personal things and his work). Another position was created, which was the congregational director, which Eve Rosenfeld now has, and which deals with programming and with the congregation, as such, with membership. I retained the supervision of the building, with me as the secretary, as the rabbi’s secretary, and also the financial part. I work with the investments committee, religious services committee, and the insurance committee. I did the business part of the Temple. Naturally, because of finances and budget preparations, I am connected closely with all facets of the Temple. I oversee the creation of the budget for the religious school and so on. It’s an interesting job. I like to have maintained the financial part of it.

Tanzer: So your official position is called Administrative Assistant?
ALKALAY: No, it is Administrative Affairs Director. I am both an executive secretary, and I represent the congregation. I sign for the records. I sign official documents as the Administrative Affairs Director. I co-sign them.

Tanzer: I wanted to ask you what Joe did and how he settled into life in this country.
ALKALAY: Well Joe worked, as I said before. His first job was with White Stag, up in the warehouse. He worked there for close to one year, until 1951. The job was not really what he wanted. He didn’t think he would make a career out of it and decided he would look for something else, but that was kind of difficult, to find something at the time. We were in the Korean Conflict, and there was something of a recession in the country, as you will remember, in the ‘50s. Again, through Lillian Wexler and through [inaudible] wife, (she was very active at the United Service for New Americans), he was introduced to Gilbert Schnitzer, who hired him at the time for Schnitzer Steel Company. He has stayed with them until the very end, when he died. He was with them from 1951 to 1975.

Tanzer: Did either of you have any special problems during the first years? Like health or marital problems? Any problems?
ALKALAY: No, we had no marital problems. We did have health problems. Not I personally (I am a pretty healthy person), but Joe, in 1952, had a thyroid operation. He suffered from high blood pressure. Later on, in the mid ‘60s — ‘66 or ‘67 — that summer it was discovered that he had sclerosis. He had sclerosis and high blood pressure, and one of these days he is going to suffer a heart attack. But it was under control. But in 1973 they discovered that he had a melanoma under his right arm, on his chest, and he was operated on. It was removed, and part of the glands were removed. At that time they said it was a successful operation, and he recovered from the operation and he had a pretty good year in 1974. And in 1975 he didn’t feel too well. He was under constant medical care; he was taking medication. But he became very ill in February and March of 1975, which led to his hospitalization in early March, when it was discovered that he had a tumor on his vertebrae and a tumor on his back, near his lungs. He was in and out of the hospital. He stayed in the hospital until June, when the tumors were arrested and we thought it was another recovery. He lasted only until October, when he became again very ill. He was hospitalized the whole month of November, and then he returned home in December and passed away the 21st of December, 1975, from a tumor that was diagnosed as a metastatic melanoma. We knew it had spread, but we didn’t know how long he would last.

Tanzer: Joy, did you have any help from the Service for New Americans in the early years when you were first here and he was ill?
ALKALAY: No. When we first came, we came in July of 1951, and we, as I said, first moved in with Bianca, and the only help that we asked from the United Service to New Americans. And I know Lillian Wexler was always very appreciative of our sense of… responsibility, I guess. When we moved out from Bianca’s, after her husband had passed away and Joe and I both thought that we should start our own life and be by ourselves, we rented an apartment, and we asked for… I think it was a month’s rent or a week’s rent. It was the only help that we received. I started working in August with David Robinson, and Joe started working for White Stag. So we never requested any financial help after that.

Tanzer: Where was your first home?
ALKALAY: Our first home was on North [inaudible] Street. We rented an apartment. We received some china and some household items and pots and pans. I still have some of those items; I did keep them. That was some of the other help that we received. It was a furnished apartment that we rented. We stayed there until my parents arrived. Then, in 1952, my parents… I remember, after they had come here and stayed one night, I think, we had rented a room for them nearby. They settled down and found and apartment. Joe and I wanted to get out of the rented apartment. Eventually we should buy a home or not. We regretted later that we didn’t buy our own home. We were driving around (by that time we had learned to drive), and we found a nice apartment, an unfurnished one, on East Burnside right across from where we live now. We moved in. That is when we bought our first furniture, on credit. I remember we went to Gevurtz Furniture store, and we met Mr. Gevurtz there. We bought our first television set.

Tanzer: Did you have any problem establishing credit?
ALKALAY: No. We bought our first… I still have the same furniture. It is 25 years old and I love it. We furnished our apartment there. Then later on when my parents decided to move nearer to us, and my father was looking around – he didn’t want a furnished apartment. He purchased the duplex we now are in. They moved into one side of the duplex, and in 1957, when the tenant moved into that side of the duplex, Joe and I decided to move in with them. And we have been there ever since.

Tanzer: And that has been a good living arrangement for you.
ALKALAY: Oh yes, very nice.

Tanzer: When were you naturalized?
ALKALAY: In 1955.

Tanzer: Both you and Joe together?
ALKALAY: Yes, in the courthouse.

Tanzer: Do you remember how you felt?
ALKALAY: Oh, I was excited. You have to have a witness, don’t you? Someone who stands in for you as a guarantor. Zola Kaz… [rest of name inaudible], who had worked for David Robinson and had remained a good friend, at that time especially, at that time we were very close; I had chosen her to come. Now she is a great joker, in a way. She embarrassed me. She had to be a character witness for me (first I went through the examination, which was quite easy; I had studied for it, and I do know something about the US Constitution), and when they asked her, “Have you ever been arrested or had any difficulties with the law?” she popped up and said, “Yes! She had to go to traffic school because she got a ticket.” I was so excited at that time, I thought, “Gosh, why did she have to go and mention that?” But everybody thought it was a great joke, and I think it eased the tension. Being from Europe I think sometimes I don’t have a sense of humor. But it was all right.

Tanzer: Maybe you are more conscious of authority.
ALKALAY: Yes, maybe that is it. But I remember that day. It was very easy. I thought it would be much more difficult; I always thought the examination would be more hard. You are frightened, naturally; you are nervous before you get there, but it is all very nice and easy.

Tanzer: Do you keep in touch with your relatives in Europe? With those that survived?
ALKALAY: Yes, we keep in touch with my mother’s two sisters, who live in Italy. One sister lives now in Milan. She is married and has a married daughter and a married son and is a grandmother. And another of my mother’s sisters lives in Trieste. She has two grown-up children and is a grandmother. We keep in touch with my father’s sisters in Israel, and I also keep in touch, and Joe did when he was alive, with his own sister who lives in Italy. She chose to remain in Italy, and she married an Italian and lives in Cosenza. I also keep in touch with friends whom I met during the War or after the War with the JDC. Some live in New York, some live in Miami, and some in San Francisco.

Tanzer: Have you been back?
ALKALAY: No. Never. No.

Tanzer: Have family been here to visit you?
ALKALAY: No, they haven’t. It is too far.

Tanzer: Do you have opportunities in Portland, Oregon to have friends and acquaintances that are also survivors?
ALKALAY: Yes, I have acquaintances who are also survivors, and distant relatives who are also survivors and live in Portland, Oregon.

Tanzer: In the early days did you help one another?
ALKALAY: You mean financially?

Tanzer: In any way.
ALKALAY: Yes, we got together and talked. I think maybe during the first year that we were here. Not so much later on. Everybody got so busy in their jobs. You know, you work all day long and then go home. Saturday and Sunday. The first year we usually used to meet every Sunday. Then it became… too much. You just don’t go with the same people every Sunday. It became burdensome in a way. I don’t think it felt natural to cling together that way. So we kind of saw each other occasionally, but not too often.

Tanzer: What did you do on those Sundays when you got together?
ALKALAY: Oh, we talked or we had dinner together. Sometimes we played cards. Nothing much. For some reason in the summer we used to go on picnics. There was a time when people used to go on picnics. I think the time of picnics is over, isn’t it? We used to go in the summer quite often on picnics.

Tanzer: Who went on these picnics?
ALKALAY: Oh, Victor Levy and his wife, and their son had been born. And Bianca. And there were some other people who were here in Portland who had come before us. We had not necessarily known them at the time. They were either from Austria or from Germany, and had come earlier and met the Levys before. We went on picnics together. Oh! I think they were part of the people who belonged to the Friendship Club. Remember the Friendship Club in Portland?

Tanzer: Tell me about that.
ALKALAY: When Joe and I both first came here, we were approached by some people about the Friendship Club, and we attended some of the meetings. They were a group of people who had come here either during World War Two or just right after World War Two and who liked to keep in touch and have a contact. They had a few social evenings. That is all I remember. I think I attended two or three functions.

Tanzer: What was the make-up of this group? Were they Eastern European Jews?
ALKALAY: No, I think the people I met were mostly Austrian or German Jewish people.

Tanzer: Do you see those people today?
ALKALAY: Yes, I see them. Not socially I don’t see them. We are not very close or very friendly, but I see them from time to time, and they remember me and say, “Oh don’t you remember when we met at the Friendship Club?”

Tanzer: Did they have a place to meet?
ALKALAY: At one time I think they met in some kind of a lodge. You know where Shaw’s is?

Tanzer: [Asks an inaudible clarifying question] Yes, I know the place.
ALKALAY: Upstairs.

Tanzer: Yes. I know where that is.
ALKALAY: I know we went there twice. I also think we met in the Jewish Community Center sometimes.

Tanzer: The place above [inaudible] is the Odd Fellows Building.
ALKALAY: That must be it.

Tanzer: Is it still in existence?
ALKALAY: No, I think it formally disbanded. They couldn’t find a treasurer, and they couldn’t find a secretary. Nobody wanted to do the bookkeeping. They just couldn’t keep it up. Oh, through them, one of the first people that we met was Fred Rosenbaum’s father. He was one of the persons who introduced us to the club.

Tanzer: Now, what contacts do you have with American-born Jews?
ALKALAY: Well, to tell you the truth, this is one of the big disappointments. Both Joe and I experienced this. We had contacts with American-born Jews through our jobs, but there it stopped. There was no social contact. No after-work contact. We know very few people that we became friendly with. Sure, they were all nice, but maybe because we didn’t go to the Jewish Community Center much. I didn’t go swimming, and Joe didn’t pursue any sports; that may be one reason. The other reason, which I always pointed out to Joe, was that it maybe because we have no children. There was an area when we couldn’t make any contact with other families. The only people we knew were the people that we worked with, and then very seldom would we visit or have social contact with these people, which was a disappointment. It was quite lonely at times, especially for my husband. He was a person who was not one for small talk; when you get together socially there is small talk, but too much of that didn’t appeal to him. He was much deeper than that. Maybe this was his difficulty. It was very difficult for him to make friendships in this regard because he expected more than just occasional talk-talk with people.

Tanzer: Were there no opportunities for any kind of cultural activities for you two?
ALKALAY: Oh, we tried but we never got very far with it. Another situation that may have contributed to it was that, as I said, since we both worked during the day, on the weeknights we preferred to stay home. It is difficult to go out after you work for 8 hours and you have other things to do at home. So the only time that we could have or would have done anything would have been on the weekends. And maybe there was nothing much available. We did occasionally attend functions at the Jewish Community Center. We would attend a function like for Yom Ha’atzmaut or we went to concerts. We didn’t go to movies; we didn’t see any movie after Exodus because we had a TV at home, and Joe said, “That is enough anyway.” We read a lot, and we had a lot of records.

Tanzer: What were the two of you reading?
ALKALAY: Well, Joe had a lot of non-fiction and current affairs, and, of course, technical books. He was very much into mathematics and chemistry and geometry. He studied to be a mechanical engineer once upon a time. So mathematics always seemed like the kind of thing to keep his mind occupied. And current affairs, economics… things that had to do [with the world]. He didn’t read much fiction; occasionally, he like a mystery.

Tanzer: What do you read, Joy?
ALKALAY: I like historical books. I like anything. I have all the books that have anything to do with 1948 onward about Israel. I have read everything that has been written about that. And I read historical books. I have always been interested in history. I do read current fiction; I read current fiction that has to do with a Jewish background.

Tanzer: Are you interested in Holocaust literature?
ALKALAY: Yes, I am. And even though people tell me I shouldn’t read all that, I have lots of books, and I read lots of books that happened in the camps. Maybe it is the guilt factor like people tell me, “You are reading it because maybe you feel guilty because you survived.” But I don’t know. I read a lot of those books, and I still read them.

Tanzer: Why should you feel guilty that you survived?
ALKALAY: Oh, I don’t feel guilty, but it is implied. People tell me that. Well, I can say that I feel lucky that I survived. We always said that the way we survived and how we survived, the circumstances that helped us survive, were lucky. We had a very good time under the Italians compared to what happened in Europe. We should be thankful that we were under Italian occupation.

Tanzer: Today do you see any film or movie that has to do with the Holocaust?
ALKALAY: No, as I said, I haven’t been to any movies, except what I see on television.

Tanzer: Do you have any non-Jewish friends?
ALKALAY: Yes, through my job, which is [inaudible] Camp, and she is a non-Jewish friend. And Joe, through his work, had met some non-Jewish people. Again, we don’t have any close non-Jewish or Jewish friends, no.

Tanzer: Have you or Joe ever had any bad experiences with non-Jews?
ALKALAY: No. We have had no bad experiences. Not in this country. No.

Tanzer: Have you ever told any non-Jews about your experiences during the war?
ALKALAY: Oh yes, because many of them are interested in it and wanted to know about it. They ask about it. Yes, we have talked about that.

Tanzer: Do you think that they understand what you went through, and about the Holocaust?
ALKALAY: In a way, yes. In another way, I don’t know they can ever understand how or what happened in Europe. Not about me personally, but about what happened in Europe. I don’t think that the majority of the non-Jewish people I have talked to can comprehend what happened. They know that it has happened, but it is beyond comprehension. Sometimes maybe they think (and not through any ill-will) that one exaggerates.

Tanzer: Do you think that the advent of literature written today by non-Jews will help their understanding?
ALKALAY: I don’t know. If it is done for the non-Jew. So many times we say that it is done for our own people, that we shouldn’t forget. Whether it is going to help the non-Jew understand the Jew better… sometimes I don’t know whether it is going to help someone get ideas of starting some Jewish persecution. I don’t know if you follow my train of thought. People are very easily lead in a certain way, and I personally, and I think Joe agreed, we were always very much concerned about if anything in the United States, like economically, would deteriorate, the first person who would get blamed… I mean a new surge of antisemitism could start. If there is too much of that literature around, people could get ideas. I don’t know if that is true or not.

Tanzer: Is there a danger of antisemitism in this country?
ALKALAY: I think there is a danger every place. I have seen it before in other countries that if something goes wrong, a minority is blamed for it.

Tanzer: Have you seen any recent examples of a rise in antisemitism in this country?
ALKALAY: No, not really.

Tanzer: Do you think that American Jews understand what you went through?
ALKALAY: Oh yes, I think they do, especially my generation. I don’t know whether the younger generation does. For them it is like history. It is like reading about World War One. I couldn’t experience what people experienced during World War One or know how they felt. I am sure that a young person is learning it as history and as part of Jewish history. I don’t know if they can appreciate what they felt and how they felt, and I don’t know if it is that important. They should know what happened to us as Jewish people. I think my generation understands, especially as many of them have been involved in World War Two and know what happened. And the older people know it too, because maybe they have gone through it before.

Tanzer: In your position with a Temple, you could perhaps answer this question: Do you think that American Jews today care about being Jewish?
ALKALAY: Yes, I think they do. Especially much more so since the State of Israel has come into existence, I think.

Tanzer: What have the changes been, do you think?
ALKALAY: I think people are prouder of being Jewish. For us as European Jews, there was always this stereotyped Jew who could be nothing else but a merchant or a peddler. He could never work with his hands. He could never be a soldier. Now the Jew in Israel can do all of those things. He is not just a scribe, like I am. I think that gives everybody some kind of a backbone. Especially after the ’67 War, when we saw that Israel knew how to defend herself, and people all of the sudden started admiring the Jew in Israel. 

Tanzer: Have you seen a change in attitude in this particular temple?
ALKALAY: In what respect?

Tanzer: In terms of the positive attitudes toward Israel?
ALKALAY: Yes, I think this synagogue here, at one time, before my time, was part of a group who were not very pro-Israel. But they have gradually become more pro-Israel. That also depends on the leadership that they have. Since Rabbi Nodel and Rabbi Rose, who belong more to the younger Reform rabbis, this change occurred, I think after World War Two. Before World War Two, I don’t think even in Reform Judaism there was this pronounced pro-Israel feeling in the leadership.

Tanzer: Has the lay-leadership changed as well?
ALKALAY: Well, I can only talk about this temple here and I think yes, it has. It is more pro-Israel, or if you want to put it this way, if you are talking about Israel. I don’t know nationally. But even nationally if you read Reform Judaism, there is a feeling that we have a responsibility for Israel. We are one people.

Tanzer: Do you belong to a political party?
ALKALAY: The Democratic Party. I think first of all it was Roosevelt, of course, and what he stood for – for Social Security. I have read books later on, and I’m not as enthusiastic now about Roosevelt as I was. I think the president I admire most is Harry Truman. I find that he was the most down-to-earth man. I feel much closer to him in what he did. When he first took over, they all said he wouldn’t succeed, that he couldn’t do it. Well, he could, and he did; he was a good president. When we came, he was the president at that time. I admired him for what he did. Traditionally, I think, I registered in the Democratic Party because of the history of the Democratic Party and Roosevelt, yes.

Tanzer: How do you feel that the American system of government works?
ALKALAY: Well, it works all right. Sometimes, when it doesn’t work as well… But so far I think it is the best system yet that exists in the world.

Tanzer: And how do you feel about Henry Kissinger as secretary of State?
ALKALAY: You mean because he is Jewish or because he is Kissinger?

Tanzer: Because he is Kissinger.
ALKALAY: Well, I really have not much of an opinion on him. I don’t know whether he…. First, he was so greatly admired for what he did to end the conflict in Vietnam. I don’t know how much he did for that. If he did that, that is fine. I don’t know how much he is contributing to the Middle East. I don’t know if he is doing much for it or whether he is rather damaging… I don’t know.

Tanzer: What do you think about his being a Jew?
ALKALAY: I think it makes it more difficult for him. He can always be accused of taking [sides]. I don’t know if it is a handicap for him, at least in the Middle East affairs, maybe in other foreign involvement. But it makes it more difficult for him to speak out. I don’t want him to only take the part of Israel. There may be times when Israel is wrong. I don’t think he has to be partial. But it makes it more difficult to achieve anything.

Tanzer: What do you think are the greatest problems facing the United States today?
ALKALAY: I think it is unemployment and economics. And also I have another fear. I don’t know whether the United States is going back to a certain isolationism.

Tanzer: What is the cause of your fear?
ALKALAY: Not a fear, a concern. Because of the great criticism that the government had, and rightly so, because of their involvement in Vietnam, they are now trying to go back into isolationism, so to say. I don’t mean just the Middle East. I just read an article not too long ago about the CIA and the United States government. One reason about the greatest criticism of the CIA was because of politicians who would prefer a kind of isolationism. Because there always has been such an agency as the CIA in every government. I think the criticism of the CIA is that they haven’t disclosed everything or said everything. Every country has an agency like that, and they do things in other countries. It has never been this closed. I don’t think that everything has to be disclosed. The CIA worked against Communism in Italy or helped with monies to combat Communism. In other words, we don’t want them to do it, so we don’t care what happens in other countries. Maybe I am getting too involved, but I think that would be part of us being concerned what happens in this country.  Not that we shouldn’t be concerned about what happens in this country, because a lot of things that happen in this country could be improved; as I said before, unemployment and improving life for other people.

Tanzer: What do you think of the present leadership in this country?
ALKALAY: I haven’t got much of an opinion. I don’t know who to vote for. I don’t know.

Tanzer: On what will you base your voting?
ALKALAY: I don’t know. I think it is too early. I have never voted Republican, but even if I look at the Democratic now in the state of Oregon, they say there are about 15 on the primaries. I look at them, and there isn’t one of them. I really don’t know very much about one or the other or the quality of one man over the other. Maybe if there were a composite. Everyone has something that I think is good. 

Tanzer: Have you ever been to Israel?
ALKALAY: No.

Tanzer: Would you like to go?
ALKALAY: Oh yes, who doesn’t? I would like to go.

Tanzer: Do you have plans to go?
ALKALAY: Not right now I don’t have plans.

Tanzer: Do you get restitution payments from Germany?
ALKALAY: No. The only thing I received was in the early 1960s. I knew that you could, for interruption of studies, and since my studies had been interrupted in Vienna, I applied through the Austrian consulate here in Portland. I received a one-time payment because I had to interrupt my high school studies.