Eva Lamfromm Labby

Frankel: Let me ask you to state your full name, date of birth, and place of birth.
LABBY: Eva Labby, formally Eva Lamfromm, born June 25th 1929, in Augsburg, Germany.

Frankel: So, since we have your lifeline, that beautiful story, let’s begin with you as a young child in Germany and your earliest memories of the changes going on and maybe before that. Just list who lived in your household.
LABBY: My family, within our home, consisted of father, Paul Lamb, my mother, Marie Lamb, my oldest sister, Hildegard, who as a child I knew as Urschi (but since Americans couldn’t pronounce that, we discovered that her real name was Hildegard), my middle sister, Gertrude, and me and our dog.

Frankel: Do you remember the dog?
LABBY: The dog’s name was Raps, and he was an African…I will think of it later, what kind of a dog he was.

Frankel: And what are the general memories of growing up in Germany in the early 1930s?
LABBY: I’m sure because of my age and because I seem to have a very positive attitude, most of my memories are very happy. I really was not aware of a great deal of discrimination early on. I think my earliest awareness that there were limitations placed on our activities was when I had seen a theater production with ballerinas and I decided I wanted to be a ballerina. And the only ballet school was at the theater, the city’s theater, which as I think back now must have been government controlled, because they did not allow Jews to take lessons there. So my mother compensated and gave me gymnastics lessons instead. That was, I think, my earliest recollection; also I remember once there was a poster, a political poster on a fence across the street from our home, and somebody had defaced it in some way, and I think somebody, probably my mother, said to me, “Don’t go near it because they might think that you have done this.” 

Then probably my next awareness was when I finished the second grade and I was told that I could no longer attend public school. I had to attend a school at our synagogue, which was 180 degrees different from my experiences at public school. Public school was a wonderful experience. My teacher was an absolutely marvelous man who, although he punished me when I needed it, he adored me; and I certainly adored him. We kept up a communication later in life. After I was excluded from public school, one day I saw him in the public market, and I ran over to his arms, and he gave me a big hug; we learned later that he was chastised and told he must never ever show affection to anyone who was Jewish. I heard about it, but there was so much else that was good going on in my life that…

Frankel: Now two questions: number one, in this school after 1933 when Hitler came to power, did the students have to salute in class? Do you have any recollection of that?
LABBY: I don’t remember having to do it in class. I don’t. It’s possible. I remember in public gatherings that this was required. It’s interesting; you are the first person that’s asked me about that. I don’t have any recollections of that. If I did participate, I had no awareness of it being a bad thing.

Frankel: You also mentioned how different this school in the synagogue was; can you…?
LABBY: The teacher was not very good. He may not have even been a qualified teacher; I don’t know. I’ve had that reinforced by speaking to someone while my book was being published last year. They asked me what I remembered. They said they had heard also that he wasn’t a very good teacher. But I was only there a few months because I think the school year started not in September, like it does here, but…perhaps in March or earlier in the year. I have a book, a workbook from my Jewish school, still; I should look and see if it has a date on it. But we left Germany in July, and so I was only there a few months.

Frankel: Would you say that the years you recall in Germany at home–was it a Jewish home in terms of celebrations?
LABBY: We celebrated whatever we could. We’d celebrate Jewish holidays; we’d celebrate Christian holidays. We celebrated Christmas but we didn’t have a Christmas tree. And that was continued in the United States, so that my mother decorated the house. We had Christmas Eve celebrations as we had in Germany, and gifts were there for us the next day on Christmas day. But we didn’t have a tree.

Frankel: What about the Jewish holidays, Friday nights?
LABBY: We didn’t celebrate Friday night; we were a Liberal congregation, and we did not celebrate Friday night at home. I think I went to one Passover celebration in Germany, and only a few here in the United States before I was married. But we celebrated Purim; I think Germans like to dress up. But it may have been the times too, because my husband’s family used to have costume parties, so it may have been the times as well. And we celebrate Hanukkah, definitely–one day, not seven days as they do here. We did the candles seven nights, but not a gift every night, just the first night. And, of course, Sukkos, yes. So it was a medium religious upbringing.

Frankel: Did your family belong to a synagogue in Germany?
LABBY: Absolutely. And that synagogue is still there. It was somewhat damaged on Kristallnacht, but it’s been rebuilt. The congregation now is mostly foreign-born from anywhere east of Germany, but yes, I have recollections that the women had to sit upstairs, the men downstairs. I have a recollection of my father wearing a top hat and a cutaway coat for some holidays, but you know these are a child’s memories–the “Technicolor” rather than the seriousness. 

Frankel: Now you went to a Jewish school at the synagogue after the Jewish children weren’t allowed…
LABBY: That was in 1937. I started school in ’35, and prior to that I went to a Jewish kindergarten. But I only was excluded for a few months.

Frankel: What about your sisters? In what grades were they? And at what point did they…?
LABBY: My oldest sister was in high school; she was in a private high school. At that time in Germany public school was grade one through six. Those who could afford it went on to private high school. Those who couldn’t either left school or could continue for another couple of years through eight grades.

Frankel: Only eighth grade was compulsory?
LABBY: Yes. And so Hildegard was (I don’t want to sound snobbish, but) in the upper-class high school. I know other people who were there at the time; the school still exists.

Frankel: Were they subjected to the same laws?
LABBY: No. The private schools at that time could teach anyone, could include anyone. And Gert went to another high school (I think [it was] St. Elizabeth) because she had completed the first six years. She was in a private school. I really don’t know why she chose the one that she went to. They may have emphasized something that she was interested in. I never thought of asking her. But the one that Hildegard went to is the same one my mother and her sisters went to. Also it was one that had been there for many years.

Frankel: Now I know that you had extended family in Augsburg, so what were your relationships? Did you have cousins your age?
LABBY: No, the closest cousin was three years older than I, so she was a little closer to Gert than to me because she was two years younger; that was my cousin Hannah Untermeyer who now lives in Colorado, and her mother was my mother’s older sister. My mother’s younger sister lived in Nuremburg, and she was, at the time, not married. And my father had two brothers. His older brother was a physician and was killed in World War I. His younger brother left Germany in 1903, came to the west coast, was employed by the Bissenger family, the family of my paternal grandfather, …was not married until 1932, and had no children. So the closest relatives really were the Untermeyer family. There were three children there but they were all older than my sisters, except for Hannah. My grandmother Epstein, who was my mother’s mother, lived in Augsburg. And my father’s mother lived in Augsburg. My two grandfathers died in 1932 so I just have a vague memory of them. But they were living in Augsburg also.

Frankel: So after you went to day school at the synagogue, clearly things began to get more difficult. Did you get a sense of the danger or the concerns your parents had?
LABBY: My parents, I think, must have shielded us from a lot that was going on. I sense that my sisters knew more. Well, it’s obvious they would have known more [as] they were five and seven years older. My first real awareness, other than having told you about having seen a poster that was defaced, was when my parents told us that we were going to leave. They said, “You must not talk about it. You must not tell anyone; even the walls have ears.” I remember that as though it was yesterday because that was such a visual, you know, [laughing] “the walls have ears.” I know exactly where I was that day. I’ve been back in that same room because we befriended the people who live in my parents’ home now. And that was my first awareness but it just didn’t haunt me. I was the lucky third child, the youngest (spoiled I’m sure); life was good to me.

Frankel: So, what was your reaction? You’re leaving this wonderful place to go an unknown place?
LABBY: Well, I don’t remember being unhappy about it. I think I looked forward to every new adventure. It’s the only way in retrospect that I can view it. My parents must have prepared us so well that there was no fear about…. Oh, we’re going to go somewhere. We get to get new clothes, “Oh, that’s exciting.” No one dwelled on the fact that we would not see our friends again; that we might not see our relatives again. It was all very positive. 

Frankel: So, do you have memories of that journey?
LABBY: Oh, absolutely. Oh, yes

Frankel: Can you tell us first of all who were the other passengers on the ship?
LABBY: I have a passenger list from one of the ships. I don’t throw things away. We just add rooms to the house. My only recollection of contact I had on the ship was a young girl who was probably my age or maybe a year older. Her family was going to South America. I remember either I noticed, or one of my parents noticed, that her father had a pin on the reverse side of his lapel that had a swastika on it.

Frankel: I was going to ask whether they were Jewish but clearly no…
LABBY: And I remember at the time that there were members of the Nazi party going to Argentina.

Frankel: In 1937. That early?
LABBY: Um-hum. And why would Nazis go? But they did. Maybe they were…I don’t know; I never had an explanation except that other people said, “Oh yes, yes; a lot of Germans went.”

Frankel: Was it a luxury liner?
LABBY: It was the SS Manhattan. Yes, it was a very nice ship. We were not in first class, evidently. We could only bring $5 apiece but we could pay for our fare ahead of time. I know we were not in first class because I used to sneak out and visit and play with the kids in first class. And every once in a while, someone would say, “You shouldn’t be there.” That’s my recollection. 

Frankel: And how long to it take from Bremerhaven to New York?
LABBY: It was about five days as I recall, something like that; I know it was when I went back once by ship. I think it was about five days. And we spent a week in New York. We visited friends and relatives who had come earlier. Then we took a ship (the SS Virginia) [on] a trip through the Panama Canal to San Francisco and visited with family for a week. Then we took the train up here to Portland. 

Frankel: So what do you remember about arriving at Union Station?
LABBY: In Portland? It’s interesting. I have no recollection. I remember New York, and I remember going to a movie theater and seeing the movie about the San Francisco earthquake. I remember that we visited a family, friends of distant relatives…on Long Island or the outskirts of the city. They had a daughter Hildegard’s age who taught her to use lipstick. [laugh]. My father was very upset. Nice girls don’t wear lipstick in Germany. And then I remember stopping in Havana going through the Panama Canal. We stopped in Los Angeles. I was crushed because Shirley Temple didn’t meet me. And it’s funny, an eight-year-old girl, what does she remember? I hadn’t been forewarned by fascinations with Justin Bieber. [Laughing]. This was all new. And I remember being driven across the new bridge in San Francisco–not the Golden Gate but the other one–the Bay Bridge. I was awake one way and asleep the other way. It’s what I remember. But I do not remember our actual arrival [in Portland]. We stayed for about six weeks at the Mallory Hotel, where my grandmother was living. 

Frankel: She actually lived in a hotel?
LABBY: Yes, she came the year before. You know the story. Yes, that was her home. She had an apartment. In those days there were a number of people who lived in hotels permanently. She lived at the Mallory. And we had quarters at the Mallory until our furniture and belongings arrived. And in the meantime we had a house rented on the east side near Grant High. 

Frankel: So, what time of year did you arrive?
LABBY: We arrived in August. We left in July and arrived in August.

Frankel: So you were going to start the new school year.
LABBY: Yes, we went by streetcar from the Mallory Hotel to…. Gertrude and I were both at Fernwood Grade School and Hildegard was at Grant High. And so we would stop and have lunch at the house we were renting. We had just enough belongings there, some garden chairs (which we still have) and a table. We would have lunch at home and then go back to school and then take the street car back to the Mallory.

Frankel: So how was that transition, language, culture?
LABBY: It was so easy. 

Frankel: Did you know English before you came?
LABBY: No. When I grew up I used to say I knew how to say, “yes” and “no,” but not when [to say them]. But I was told that I talked in my sleep in English after four weeks. Children learn so quickly, you know.

Frankel: But still…
LABBY: We did not…of course, we all spoke some German still, until we all were fluent with English, but Hildegard had studied English in school and spoke it very well, and Gertrude had had some, and knew some, and I was just a little monkey and copied what everybody else did.

Frankel: What about your parents?
LABBY: My parents spoke perfect English 

Frankel: Before they came?
LABBY: Yes, oh yes 

Frankel: From where?
LABBY: As now, people in Europe studied English and French, and my dad had years of Latin.
Also, my mom spent some time in England and my father spent time in England when he was a prisoner of war, of course. Also my mom had relatives in England that she visited…[They were] very uppity, Lord and Lady Hearst. And they corrected her English. She had to learn proper English when she was their guest. 

Frankel: So how were there plans made about what your father would do when he came to this country?
LABBY: The family members, who sponsored us [and] provided us with a visa, were the Bissingers, my dad’s cousins. They provided him with a job, which as I was told later, most of the time he had nothing to do and they just paid him. He just couldn’t tolerate that and after a little less than a year he began to look around for something that he could do. He found a hat company owned by two brothers. It was called the Rosenfeld Hat Company. They wanted to sell and my dad decided to buy. He had no history working with hats but he had been in apparel–in undergarments and men’s shirts. So, he bought the company and began working there. I think he inherited the office personnel. There was one woman, Miss Fullerman, who helped him a great deal. She stayed on with him until she retired. And the rest is history. 

Frankel: The Bissinger business, what type of business was that?
LABBY: Wool and hides. I don’t know who the first one was; there are various branches of the Bissinger family. The cousins and my uncle Max and one cousin, who lived here in Portland (the major portion of the family lived in San Francisco), had collected wool and hides all over the west. They had rendering plants where they made the raw materials for soap and candles and so on. And leather.

Frankel: Are there still Bissinger descendants of that family?
LABBY: There are Bissingers, yes, and I just recently ran across someone who is a Pulitzer Prize writer, originally from Brooklyn. I first saw his name when I was visiting our daughter in Philadelphia in May. There was a newspaper article, a big article about him. And he is coming here to be the speaker at the Albertina Kerr annual meeting in October, which I definitely will attend. I’m hoping that I will get a chance to make a connection. It’s a name that is unusual. There is one other one, a famous candy chocolate company in Kansas City, I believe it is; I’ve seen it several times in Los Angeles, Bissinger Chocolates. I don’t know how they’re related, but so many families came and had lots more kids, and they spread all over. And so yes, they’re around; they are around. But most of them are in the Bay area that I know of.

Frankel: So coming back to your childhood in Portland, can you describe the neighborhood? Were there many Jews?
LABBY: Yes, there were two Jewish families, come to think of it. My closest connection was with Jimmy Clancy next door, [laugh], who was definitely not Jewish. And the Fergusons across the street had kids my age. But there were two Jewish families: the Blanks, Len Blank, who was my age, lived a block away, and half a block away was my sister Hildegard’s good friend, a Janice Kaufman, who eventually moved to San Francisco.Those are the only, I think as far as I know. Well there were others who were blocks away that I knew about.

Frankel: I’m only asking because the story you tell in Germany that while your parents and your family was very German, socially, all their friends were Jewish.
LABBY: Yes.

Frankel: Was that the same in this country?
LABBY: Probably the closest friends for my parents, particularly in the earlier years, [were] other immigrants who continued to be their best friends. My sister-in-law Lore Labby’s aunt, who more or less raised her after her mom died, was my mom’s best friend. 

Frankel: Did they speak German amongst themselves? 
LABBY: My parents did not speak German anymore.

Frankel: Even with the…?
LABBY: The other families spoke German. Oh I’m sure occasionally they might have used a phrase or something. They just did not speak German anymore. We came here. We were Americans. We were grateful that America accepted us. And we wanted to become Americans. We didn’t want anything to do with Germany. 

Frankel: Did your family join a synagogue here as well?
LABBY: Oh, absolutely, yes. We joined Beth Israel. We had a connection there from my uncle, Sam Bissinger, who was here in Portland, and he had been a member of the congregation for a long time and was a very close friend of Rabbi Berkowitz.

Frankel: He was the Rabbi at the time?
LABBY: Yes. 

Frankel: Did you attend services regularly?
LABBY: We attended holidays. We did not go regularly. My thinking…I thought about this in looking back, I think my mom began to go more regularly after my dad died. Maybe after I grew up they went more often than I knew. 

Frankel: Was there such a thing as Sunday school? Religious school?
LABBY: Absolutely. We all went to Sunday school and I was confirmed.

Frankel: Well you were the youngest. Were your siblings confirmed?
LABBY: I’m trying to remember. I think Gert was confirmed. Hildegard was confirmed in Germany, but I think she also went to Sunday school. She was a junior in high school. She had two years at Grant and then graduated and went to Reed College. And I think she must have gone to Sunday school also. I’m quite sure. And Gert went. I don’t remember if she was confirmed. I don’t have a real recollection of that. I know that Hildegard was confirmed in Germany because it was tied in with when my dad came back…. When my grandmother decided to stay in this country, then my dad came over to see. The story there is that my dad’s brother, Max Lamb, started writing to my dad in 1932, “You’ve got to get out; it doesn’t look good.” My dad said, “I’m an established businessman; I’m a good citizen. I’m a decorated soldier from WWI. What do they want with me?” So when his mother came in ’36 to the United States to visit she saw in the free press that things were as bad as my uncle had said and she said, “I’m staying. Dissolve my household.” My father got the message and came over to visit to see for himself in January or February of ’37 as a visitor. [He] came back and said, “We’re leaving.” Normally it took a long time to get the exit visa, but because there was someone in the bureau that handled that who had served under my dad in WWI and liked him, he expedited our application, and we left in July. And my dad came back in time for Hildegard’s confirmation. It must have been May or April maybe. I have pictures of it. I think it was either April or May as far as I remember.

Frankel: Now, people often talk about South Portland, which was the Jewish neighborhood with all the businesses. Do you recall ever going there?
LABBY: I have to tell you something that I’m very ashamed of. German Jews are not very positive about what they call “Easterners.” I would hear passing comments, nothing specific, but we just didn’t have a connection with them. They were the others. Naturally, I married one. [laughing]

Frankel: I understand all three brothers married German women. [Laughing].
LABBY: Arty and I joke about it. He’s very good about it. He says, “Well you know we’re Easterners” and so on. Part of it is the times. Part of it is it’s the Germans against the rest of the world. And although we were Jewish, we were still brought up German. And I think some of it, too, has to do with when you live in a country, a small country that is surrounded by lots of other countries, you protect yourself in various ways, and this is one of the ways you do that. It carries itself over into such strange ways. I remember we had a game that (we played) in Germany, and we brought it with us. It was like Bingo but you didn’t have an open board on which you placed your markers. You had three walls, paper; it made such an impression on me, years later, that this was…that you protected yourself against the other people. I think of this relating to people who live in cities like New York and Chicago. You know you’re so closed in that you need to retain your privacy in [any] way that you can. I hadn’t thought of it in a long time but it’s such a visual, you know, for the way people live. I just assume all these little countries in Europe find ways to isolate themselves from the “bad guy” on the other side of the border. Anyhow, that’s making an excuse for a very bad, bad thing. 

Frankel: But then in high school, I believe, in Grant High School, who were your friends when you got there? …or even in elementary?
LABBY: I had two sets of friends: I had my friends in Sunday school; I can count them on the fingers on one hand. But most of my friends were non-Jewish kids. And some of them are still my friends. I happened to have been in what ended up to be the last January graduating class from high school. You could start in January and graduate in January instead of starting in September, depending on your birth date. And after I had been here half a year, I was skipped into that class. We had a small class, 108 instead of 300 or 400, and we have stayed close friends. We’re having our 65th reunion in our backyard next week. Those are my friends. Among them there were a few Jewish kids but I would say [they were] my closest friends. It was not a matter of I don’t want someone who is Jewish or I do; it just happened. 

Frankel: Did you ever go to the Jewish Community Center or to Neighborhood House?
LABBY: My first recollection of going to the Jewish Community Center was when my oldest daughter was in preschool there. And I had not been in the Neighborhood House, although my dad was on the board of the Neighborhood House at one time, but I think I was an adult before I went there, as far as I remember.

Frankel: Now, because I hear often that all the sports activities for the Jewish kids were being held at the Jewish Community Center. Were you involved in sports?
LABBY: At the NE YMCA. [laughing]. But you see, that was convenient. I could bicycle there. 
And I was able to fulfill one of my early dreams: I wanted to be a ballet dancer. I couldn’t study ballet there but I learned tap dancing there. They had what they called circuses, and every six months or a year they had performances with costumes. So, I did that. I learned to swim there.And I was on their swim team for many years. So that was part of my social activity. And, of course, Girl Scouting was a big part of my life too. After we were in our house on Tillamook Street for a brief period of time, a lady in the neighborhood came to my mom and asked her if she would be willing to help her with the Brownie troop. So, my mom said, “sure” and helped. She developed into a Girl Scout leader and eventually had a Girl Scout troop when I flew up. It was at the age of ten back then. Many of my friends were in my mom’s Girl Scout troop. And I went to camp every summer. I did go to BB camp one year. Yes, my first year I went to BB camp one week and Brownie camp three weeks. My sister Hildegard was a counselor at BB camp at that time.

Frankel: Do you have fond memories of that?
LABBY: I have memories, not very specific, (laughing). There’re two strong memories. One, I remember the little water dogs, the lizards that lived in the lake–that was fun. We put on a performance of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, and I wanted to be Snow White. I still remember the girl who got the part. I was one of the dwarves; I think I was Sleepy, [laughing]. I had long braids (I’d never had my hair cut until I was 12), so they made it into a beard. That’s my strongest memory of BB camp. I can see it, you know what it looked like, but activity wise, those are the things I remember.

Frankel: Just culturally, since I remember reading that because you weren’t able to bring in cash, you bought a lot of clothes, was it in sync with the American style, or did you stand out?
LABBY: I think it must have been pretty much the same. I think so. I think the only thing that stood out was that we had some dirndls, you know the kind of Bavarian dress with the little aprons, the dresses that had little puffed sleeves and special silver buttons that were typical of the area, which I don’t remember wearing them a great deal. Somebody said they remembered my dirndls, somebody recently, and whether that was from participating in the Junior Rose Festival parade or whether I wore it to school, I probably did for a while. But I think our clothes were pretty standard.

Frankel: And since, as you said, when you came there were very few other refugees at the time, how did they relate to you, especially the kids? Because you were younger and sometimes they can be cruel…
LABBY: They were great. They were fascinated and they were very welcoming; they really were. I don’t remember anybody being hostile or making any remarks to make me uncomfortable. Maybe I didn’t hear it but I don’t think it existed. Later on, in high school, I think the thing that I was aware of was that there were certain societies, sororities that did not accept Jews. 

Frankel: In high school there were sororities?
LABBY: Oh yes, sororities and fraternities at Grant High. And it was a school that was very socially stratified. Even though I was good friends with kids who were in the best sororities and so on…. I could belong to all school clubs, and I was very active in those, but the sororities were not school-sponsored. There was a Jewish sorority to which I belonged, and Hildegard had belonged to it. I don’t think Gert did, that I remember, but Hildegard did, and I was in another social club also that was mixed. Naturally you always want you think of as the best. Why you would think they were the best I don’t know, because if they’re snobbish, that’s not very good. But that’s you know teenage….

Frankel: When the United States entered the war you were not yet citizens. And so you were considered enemy aliens?
LABBY: Correct.

Frankel: What are your memories from then?
LABBY: It’s very interesting. From my dad, because he was traveling always on business, visiting sports stores all over the northwest, he had to get special permission. First of all, we were restricted to being on our home property. We had to be on our home property from 8:00 in the evening until 8:00 in the morning, unless we had special dispensation. My dad had a good relationship with the district attorney and he never had a problem. Being more than I think it was 15 miles out of Portland, being away from home for sometimes weeks at a time, not being here on the weekends, he never had any problems; they were very good to him. I had a funny experience. I mentioned that I had been on the swim team at the “Y” and…there was some kind of competition one evening. The only way that I could go was if I had some responsible person or persons bringing me home, which meant that when I went up to the front desk after I got dressed after the swim meet there were two policemen there waiting for me, in uniform, to take me home. 

Frankel: Oh, they were the ones to escort you home.
LABBY: Yes, [laughing] And I don’t remember being upset by it. 

Frankel: Did you realize the irony that you were Jewish and we were considered…?
LABBY: I guess I didn’t even think of that so much. Not that I remember. I might have at the time, but I don’t have any recollections of putting it together. We were just so glad to be here, you know. We realized it was ridiculous to think of us as enemy but by the same token we were safe. So I think that overshadowed any negativity. 

Frankel: Did you have any Japanese classmates?
LABBY: I did not. Arnie did, and he remembers them suddenly being gone. There were none in either my grade school or high school. And there was only one black girl in my grade school. 

Frankel: You still had relatives back home in Europe. How much news, how much information did you get about the situation?
LABBY: Mail was opened and examined, censored. Yes, it was censored. And I remember my parents receiving [mail] where there would be part of a line cut out, not just blacked, but actually cut out.

Frankel: And those were letters from whom?
LABBY: Letters from my grandmother. I suppose letters [from] my mom’s older sister Flora Untermeier and her family did not come until 1939. They were still there for Kristallnacht. My uncle and my cousin were taken…this was an interesting event…they were taken to Dachau, which is the concentration camp between Augsburg and Munich, and there were all the young men and old men, Jewish people, males over 16; after Kristallnacht [they] were taken there, and they didn’t know what was going on. The story that we got (and I believe it) was told to us by the rabbi from Augsburg, who came to visit my parents in Portland. The commandant of the concentration camp, one day everybody had to be out and counted for, and he said, “Okay do any of you want to go home?” A number of the people were very afraid because they thought this was some kind of a trick. But I guess enough of them said, “Yes, yes.” And so he said, “Okay go. I don’t know why you’re here.” And so many of them were released. I guess maybe all of them. I don’t have detailed information on it. But my uncle Eugene and cousin Richard were among them and many other people that we knew. I think it was the rabbi who was there also; that’s how he told us the story. Anyhow they emigrated in ’39. So, who else did we hear from? Our friends, we did not communicate with friends because I suspect maybe they would have been in trouble; there would have been some suspicion about [it]. 

Frankel: What about your father’s business partner?
LABBY: He was also a Jewish and came to the United States not much later than we did. I don’t know whether he was in Dachau or not. I really never thought to ask. But he moved to Cincinnati. They were in contact. He and my dad sold the business to a very nice, honest man, and they retained ownership of the building. Then the man who bought the business paid rent and put it in the bank account every month. I’ve seen papers documenting these deposits. At the end of the war the Germans said, “Oh, we’re terribly sorry, that bank was bombed by an American bomb, and there are no records.” It was probably in Switzerland or somewhere, who knows. And that went along with all the money that they retained and so on, but Karl Triest was my dad’s partner’s name, and they communicated and saw each other from time to time. 

Frankel: What about your grandmother? 
LABBY: My grandmother was living in her own flat, and then I think it must have around 1939 or 1940 (I have some documentation, I don’t remember which year it is), Jewish families had to give up their homes. Many of them moved in with others, so my grandmother had her cousin live with her, and then they had one room, and then other people came, and their family lived in another room. 

Frankel: Was there a reason why she was not able to …?
LABBY: We had given her an affidavit, and she finally got her exit visa approved. She said, “I want to wait until my cousin gets hers,” because they had become very close, and they were living together, and she said, “I can’t leave without her.” It was too late. They was sent to Terezin, both of them. And my aunt Eda died a few months later. I have letters. Maybe some of the letters that are in here may have said…I can’t remember which letters are in here. My cousin Hannah Untermeier Gibbs has inherited all the letters her families got from my grandmother over the years; her sister had them. Her sister had come to the United States, and her husband-to-be also had been in the United States. He had worked for Stars and Stripes in the Army, the Army newspaper. He was a writer, and he came back to the United States after the war and couldn’t get a job, and finally was hired by a company in Germany. And much to everybody’s surprise, [he] moved back to Germany. He ended up being the right-hand man of Axel Springer, the big, big newspaperman in Germany. Anyhow, Mary Anne had all these letters and passed them on to Hannah. Hannah loaned them to me. There were over 100 letters on this very thin, thin paper, the airmail paper that people used to send. I had an education through those letters that I never would have had otherwise.

Frankel: Years later.
LABBY: Yes, before this book was published, I borrowed them; Hannah loaned them to me. They were all just folded up and put in an envelope. And I put them all, each letter, into an individual transparent sleeve and made a notebook out of it before I returned them. They’re much easier to read now. But they’re in German; they’re in the old German script that I learned, handwritten, and so it takes a while to read because you can see through if they write on the back. It’s hard to read. My grandmother had nice handwriting. So it was an education because she wrote about things I knew nothing about. 

Frankel: Did you have any of your relatives who had been here earlier, who served in the American Army during WWII?
LABBY: Well, actually my cousin Richard Untermeier served in the American Army. He came, I don’t know what year he came. I think he came after us; yes, he must have because he was taken to Dachau at Kristallnacht with his father. He must have come in 1938, something like that. He was in the Armed Services, and there were second cousins who [came] also. I remember one of them coming to visit us when he was stationed in Vancouver with the navy. All those who were the right age were in the American Army.

Frankel: Was there any discussion about Zionism in your household?
LABBY: It was a negative. My families were polar opposites. And it was not a denial of being Jewish. It’s something that still has me puzzled because the emphasis has been so much on making Judaism a race rather than a religion. And I guess my family always saw themselves as being of the Jewish religion, not that it was a race or a nationality. 

Frankel: Even after the war, when so many Jews were left homeless so to speak?
LABBY: It was just something that was. And I think I inherited it in my blood in some way. I have no negative feelings about Israel but I also don’t have a passionate attachment. I think of myself as having the belief and whatever blood runs through my veins, runs through my veins, and I don’t see it as having a religious…

Frankel: In Sunday school were there any lessons [in Zionism?] 
LABBY: No, it was very interesting that [Zionism], as far as I know, really didn’t begin to develop until Rabbi Rose came. For a while he was more positively inclined towards Zionism, and I think he pulled back in later years. The first 20 years I couldn’t understand what he talked about anyhow. I shouldn’t say that but he was so erudite in his lectures that it was just hard to follow. Later he became a little bit more humanistic and down to earth.

Frankel: Did he succeed Berkowitz?
LABBY: No there were several [between them]. My confirmation was, I believe, by the one that succeeded him, and that was Rabbi…(oh what was his name, he married a local girl) Gumpert. [Aside to her husband] Arnie, what was the name of the rabbi who followed Rabbi Berkowitz? [Answer: Hausman.] It just escaped me. Nice, nice man, very down to earth, I think it may have been his first congregation. He cried during our confirmation; he was so moved by it. I remember that more than anything else. But he was a nice, nice man. Very nice, but he was only here a few years, three or four years. But I don’t remember any, certainly not Rabbi Berkowitz, and I don’t remember any of the succeeding ones; many were here a short time, but I don’t remember any emphasis being placed on that [Zionism] until Rabbi Rose came. 

Frankel: So when the state of Israel was declared in May of 1948 do you have any…?
LABBY: Where was I in 1948? Let me think. I was in college. I was at Reed. And I probably didn’t go to Temple a lot. I think I was busy. I must have gone at the High Holy Days, and that’s usually when some of this surfaced. But I don’t recall. 

Frankel: The day that Israel was declared an independent state is not part of your memory?
LABBY: No, I’m sorry.

Frankel: No that’s fine. So tell me, you went to Grant, and you had a positive experience.
LABBY: Oh, absolutely. It was an easy experience for me, and I learned a lot, but I think so much less in those days than kids learn now in high school. 

Frankel: You think you learned less than what students learn today?
LABBY: Well yes, maybe it was too easy? And it went in one ear and worked its way around where I needed it and then went out. I don’t know. I think kids have a much more mature learning experience in high school nowadays if they are willing to listen [more] than we did. It was a little simpler. 

Frankel: And was it hard for you to decide where you would go after high school? And what you would study?
LABBY: No. I knew I wanted to go to college. I think the two schools I considered were Stanford and Reed. My older sister Hildegard was a Reed graduate so I went to Reed. 

Frankel: What was it like?
LABBY: Oh, it was wonderful. It was fascinating, and it was much, much harder than I anticipated. It was a big challenge for me. And maybe that’s what I was reflecting on with the high school experience. It didn’t prepare us for a school like Reed, whereas many of the students there came from private schools in the east and had a better college preparation.

Frankel: What classes did you take?
LABBY: …Humanities was a requirement for the first year; I took two years. I took two years of French. I took science, Biology and I took a reading course in German just to get an additional (well I thought it should be easy) easy credit. I had a very wonderful, tolerant teacher. It was a one-on-one class, and I realized how difficult German literature can be. I started out with Thomas Mann and I gave up on that after a few chapters. It was way beyond my ability. I hadn’t spoken German and hadn’t read anything since Grimm’s Fairy Tales and…Pinocchio. Then he gave me Siddhartha to read, and I felt that book was just wonderful. It helped me to get through the class and get the credit. It was probably my first reconnection with German.

Frankel: Was it really simply because you thought it would be an easy credit, or was there more to it?
LABBY: I think I just thought, “Oh, you know, this will be…what shall I take?” Well let’s see, I was taking…I was so busy with so many other things. I was very active in theater there, which was…

Frankel: You had started at Grant already, your involvement in theater?
LABBY: Yes, I took the Civic Theater classes and was in productions there, and at long last was able to take a ballet class, you know, which was denied to me as a child. Then at Reed I discovered Gilbert & Sullivan and we had wonderful productions every spring–combinations of students and faculty. I was in the chorus of the first two and then got some lead roles. And that was exciting. After I graduated and came back to Portland one of my friends…

Frankel: When you say “back to Portland…” 
LABBY: Oh, I took my last year of college at UCLA. I decided to become a psychology major, and the psychology department consisted of three classes at Reed. It was a very small department and the head of the department was in deteriorating health. It didn’t provide me with anything that I wanted. And just on the spur of the moment, with less than a week’s notice, I decided, “I’m going to go to UCLA.” My older sister Hildegard was living in California (she was a biochemist, and she was doing research there) so I went to UCLA and was fortunate enough to be able to graduate in one year. Then I came back and one of my friends, who had been in the Gilbert and Sullivan productions with me, wanted to audition for a show at Civic Theater. She said, “Please go with me.” And so I went with her, and I got…

Frankel: A lead role?
LABBY: No, I got three small parts in the first show, but that was the beginning of about 45 years at Civic Theater.

Frankel: Really? Did this become your main … not only passion but…?
LABBY: Yea, I suppose so. I did at least one show a year, sometimes more, and I just loved being on stage. I think from the time I saw my first Shirley Temple movie, you know, I was hooked. I was very, very fortunate to have been a part of this wonderful experience at Civic Theater. The director was a wonderful man.

Frankel: What was his name?
LABBY: Jim Cameron. And many of the people with whom I was in shows are still my friends.

Frankel: And yet psychology was your major. Did you ever do anything?
LABBY: Oh yes, when I first got out of college I went into social work. I worked as a social worker for a few years in Portland, actually Oregon City. I worked for Welfare. They wanted to advance me to work in Salem or at the headquarters either in the state or in one of the cities, but I wanted to be in contact with people, so I worked out in Oregon City for about a year and a half, two years, three years maybe. Then my sister Hildegard was going to work in Denmark. She had a position doing research in Denmark, in Copenhagen, and she wanted to travel beforehand and asked me if I’d go with her. 

Frankel: Were you close?
LABBY: Yes, I think we probably. Whether it’s because we went to Reed or because we were alike that we went to Reed, somehow or other we were close. But Gert and I were close in other ways also. Oh, before I left social work to go to Europe I was asked by a friend to accompany him to the legislature and be his executive assistant. [That was] Phil Roth, who later became a judge and should have been a judge to begin with. 

Frankel: He was Jewish?
LABBY: Yes, and he asked me to, and I thought, “Well that sounds interesting.”

Frankel: Did you have any skills or any background in legislature?
LABBY: I guess just having gone to Reed college and having a good solid education. It was a fascinating experience; I learned so much. And I thought very seriously about going to law school. It was a wonderful experience.

Frankel: How long did you…?
LABBY: Well let’s see the legislature starts in January, and at that time probably until June, mid June, and then a few years later…. Now Phil was a Republican, and I’ve always been a liberal Democrat, and so a few years later, a very liberal Democrat, Monroe Sweetland, called me, and he said, “I think you kept Phil on the straight and narrow and would you come and be my executive assistant.”

Frankel: He took you away…
LABBY: So a few years later in ’56, I went with Monroe to Salem.

Frankel: Was that after your Europe trip.
LABBY: Yes, I forgot about, I lost track. At first I did social work, then I went to work with Phil, then I went back to social work, [and] then I went to Europe with Hildegard for a year; we traveled for six months together, and then I went off to England and Ireland and Scotland by myself. And actually became acquainted with a girl from Maryland in England, and she traveled with me then through Scotland and Ireland. So I went back to Denmark for Thanksgiving.

Frankel: To be with your sister?
LABBY: And then I got a job.

Frankel: In Denmark?
LABBY: Yes. I worked for an import firm.

Frankel: What kind of…
LABBY: I don’t know. I think actually the head of the company just wanted me there. [laughing] But he was very disappointed. He wanted me to…. Eventually it kind of surfaced, and I let him know that I was there only for business. But he was being very kind. Actually I was having my old watch repaired in Copenhagen and was talking to the store owner, and I said, “I’m afraid I’m going to have to go home pretty soon because I’m running out of money,” and he said, “Oh, you can’t do that. Let me call somebody; he’ll give you a job.” And that’s how I got the job. And the man was really very nice. I did some translating for him and I did some organizing; I had organized things at Columbia Sportswear. I had worked there off and on as a student and just through the years from the time I was nine or ten years old. I would make boxes and put together boxes and ship things and eventually did office work. And so I knew a little bit about how to organize an office. So, I did some organizing for him. 

Frankel: On that trip did you go to Germany?
LABBY: We did. We did. We went particularly because we wanted to see Hildegard’s best friend, who had been very, very kind to my grandmother. She would sneak food to her at night. You know they were very limited in the food and they could only have a little bit of meat and a little bit of protein of other sorts. It wasn’t just rationing; it was because they were Jewish and they weren’t allowed to have things. She would sneak over at night. It was a very dangerous thing to do.

Frankel: When did you find this out?
LABBY: After the war. And so Hildegard and I spent a week I think in Augsburg.

Frankel: Were you apprehensive?
LABBY: Yes, and it was shocking in one very specific sense. So many of the people would tell us about how terrible the times were, how awful. And we would say, “Was it awful because of the bombing?” I mean the city was bombed a great deal, and they had Messerschmitt factories. And [they said], “Oh no, no, no, it wasn’t during the war; it was after the war. The Occupation was so terrible. We had to give up a room in the house to American soldiers.” And blah, blah, blah. And you know I didn’t ask, say, “How many candy bars and pieces of meat did they bring you?” We would say, “You started the war, what are you talking about?”

Frankel: You actually would say that to people?
LABBY: Oh yeah, it was just, “Yes, yes, yes, but it was so terrible.” It was not a good experience.

Frankel: Did your German come back?
LABBY: I think some. I don’t remember speaking very much German. I think because people there speak English. We probably spoke a mixture. I don’t think we spoke German a great deal. Neither one of us wanted to. So it was a very strange and strained experience. 

Frankel: Were there still signs of destruction when you went back in ’55?
LABBY: Oh yes, all over Europe. First in France, not in Holland so much that I remember. We started out in Holland but in France there was still a lot of destruction. And in Germany you could see.

Frankel: What about Augsburg? Did you recognize every, the streets and homes?
LABBY: Oh yes.

Frankel: What about your home?
LABBY: It was okay. We found out later that….I think it was an incendiary bomb that had gone through the roof. But at the time we didn’t know it. We didn’t know the people who lived there. The people who bought the house from my parents, the man or people, did not pay full. My father said, “But that’s not the price we agreed on.” [The man] said, “Try and get it.” So I don’t know how much he paid. I have no idea. But the city looked gray and dismal. Interestingly enough, when Arnie and I went back in ’88, it was still gray and dismal. And then the next time we went back it had just been totally renewed. There were bright colors. Everything was painted. The murals on the outside of buildings were replaced. Within a very few years there was such a 180-degree transformation.

Frankel: But in ’55 did you try and reconnect with a classmate?
LABBY: We saw relatives in Munich. And we stayed with my cousin in Hamburg one night; that was MaryAnn Untermeyer Kramer. There were none in Augsburg, but because we connected with Hildegard’s friend, we also found out where my teacher was living. He was living outside the city in a kind of a country home, and we went and visited him. And that was such a fantastic experience. He was there, he and his wife and their (I think) five-year-old grandson, who I met again when I was in Germany last fall. He came to the opening of the week’s activities, and we’ve been communicating since. He was just a little boy then, and he’s 62 years old now. So it’s been a lot of changes. But those were the two people we reconnected with. 

Frankel: And so after the year in Europe you came back?
LABBY: I came back. My parents were leaving to go to Germany to finalize the sale of their business and also have an extended holiday. I took my mom’s job at Columbia. Also I went to business school and learned how to do speedwriting. I never wanted to learn shorthand. When I was in high school my father said, typical of the times, “You should learn typewriting and shorthand so you can always get a job.” And I said, “No that’s not what I’m going to do.” In my first job I had my own secretary. But I did learn speedwriting because I found there were so many jobs, like the job at the legislature, where it would come in handy. I don’t think it exists anymore. It’s an interesting way of speedwriting using the alphabet and some symbols. I don’t think they use it anymore.

Frankel: Different from stenography?
LABBY: Yes. And so when I came back from Europe I worked there for half a year, something like that, maybe longer. And then Monroe Sweetland asked me to work for him. After the end of the legislature the following year he asked me to work for him at his home office helping to organize some of his material.

Frankel: Which was in Portland?
LABBY: Which was in Milwaukie. And his wife, who was the publisher and editor of the Milwaukie Review newspaper, and I became good friends. And she said, “Get out of Portland. Go away. Go somewhere else. Go to San Francisco. You need to expand your horizons.” So I went to San Francisco.

Frankel: Not knowing what you would do there?
LABBY: No. I knew one of my friends was living in the Bay Area and she told me about guest houses, which are…sort of like a boarding house. At that time it was typical for all young people who came to San Francisco to live in a guest house until they got their bearings, where they wanted to live, where they got a job, so on. And so I did have a place to go. The first day I arrived I had no place to go but I went to an employment agency. And I got a fantastic job, I thought.

Frankel: Which was?
LABBY: Well it was fantastic pay but there was nothing for me to do. I was office manager for a research group for the Western Association of Railroads. I think my experience in not only office work but in the legislature was kind of an open door for that. And it turned out, as I later learned, most railroad employment focuses on males and is very male-oriented. I sat in that office with a fantastic salary for month after month with very little to do. I offered to some research. I offered to do something creative. But no, you’re a secretary kind of thing, and so I finally left there. I was there probably [there] about nine months. Meantime, Arnie and I reconnected. 

Frankel: He grew up in Portland? 
LABBY: He grew up in Portland.

Frankel: So you knew him from Portland?
LABBY: His family lived three blocks from my family in Laurelhurst but I didn’t know him.
He and Gertrude were in Sunday school together. And I had a blind date with him when I was a freshman at Reed. I would see him occasionally at social events but we did not have any interaction other than, “Hi, how are you? Nice to see you.” When I moved to San Francisco, a number of people said, “Oh, you’ve got to look up Arnie; he’s down there. He’s so nice.” I thought, “If I call him he’s going to feel obligated to take me out, and I’m not going to do that to anybody.” So, I didn’t call him. One day, as I was driving to work Arnie was driving next to me and recognized me. He wrote home, “Is Eva down here?” And so we connected. [Laughing]

Frankel: What was he doing?
LABBY: At that time he had his masters in psychology and was working in the VA Counseling Center three blocks from me. You know, it was just bound to be. So after I left my job the following summer he was going to drive to Portland for a week’s vacation and asked me to come along because I didn’t have a job. I said okay; I had nothing else to do. We came to Portland, and he dropped me off at my parents’ home. I saw him again at a party later in the week and everyone said [whispered], “What’s going on with you two?” “Nothing, we’re good friends, just good friends.” But then suddenly our relationship blossomed and we got married.

Frankel: Wonderful. So did you go back to San Francisco?
LABBY: I stayed in San Francisco and we lived there. We were married in ‘58. 

Frankel: In Portland?
LABBY: We were married here…at Beth Israel

Frankel: Who was the Rabbi then?
LABBY: That was oh, gosh what’s his name; that was a strange guy. Arnie, what was the Rabbi’s name that married us? Nodel, that’s it. Were you here?

Frankel: No.
LABBY: He was something else, but we had a very nice ceremony in the chapel. We wanted a small wedding, about 45-50 people, and then a week later we had a big party at my parents’ house. And then we went back to San Francisco. We got married very soon after we got engaged, because it was a matter of either Arnie could take the rest of his vacation then or at Christmastime. And we said, “Why wait?” We were both over 21 and decided that we knew what we wanted. I think we were engaged for three weeks, [laughing] if it was that long. 

Frankel: So, did you still get a job when you went back?
LABBY: Oh, then, yes, …my first job offer ended up being the same job I had left. 

Frankel: With the railroads?
LABBY: With the railroads with almost half the salary, and I said, “No, I’ve had that one, thank you,” and then I got a wonderful job with US Steel in their research department. It was a fascinating job. I had to relearn everything that I knew mathematically. Math was always an easy subject for me but I didn’t realize it and didn’t follow it. I had to use a lot of math in doing the research. It was a fascinating job. I was about to be promoted–to be one of the boys in economic research–when we decided to go back. Arnie wanted to finish his PhD, and he was going to take it at the University of Portland. So we left before I became one of the boys. And I was also pregnant. We decided one of the reasons we wanted to go back to Portland [was] because we thought it was a nice place to raise kids. And so…

Frankel: So, when you were married in San Francisco, did you join a synagogue? Was Jewish life any part of your…?
LABBY: It just…the core of our non-working life was that Arnie was building a sailboat. [Laughing]. Somehow or other religion did not enter into that.

Frankel: And did you continue with your acting?
LABBY: Not in San Francisco, but when I came back to Portland, eventually. I mean first we had two kids 21 months apart, and then, all of a sudden, I reconnected with the theater and started doing shows again. 

Frankel: Where did you live when you moved back to Portland?
LABBY: First we…. Arnie got a job. He was going to graduate school and had three jobs besides. We got a job managing some apartments so we lived in one of the apartments, which was very nice. It had a washer and dryer and everything that we needed.

Frankel: Where was that?
LABBY: That was just above the Burlingame Fred Meyer on 13th Drive. We lived there, and then Arnie got a job over on the east side with Multnomah County Mental Health. He found a house just around the corner from there, on 124th and Flanders. And this was a cute little house that we bought on the GI Bill. Arnie had a wonderful GI Bill. He had both the Federal and the State GI Bill. So we had people just wanting to give us opportunities left and right, and one of them was that we were able to buy a house. So we bought the house and had our second baby there.

Frankel: And so who was your first child?
LABBY: Lisa. Lisa was our first. And she is now on a tenure track at Drexel University teaching in Philadelphia.

Frankel: In what field?
LABBY: She is a filmmaker. And interestingly enough, after she got her degree at NYU in filmmaking and then got her master’s there, she had an opportunity. She made a film for her master’s thesis that was shown in film festivals all over Europe and Australia. And of all places, Munich asked her. It showed in Munich. It was featured at their film festival, and then people there said, ”You should apply for a particular fellowship that is being provided by the German government to come over here and spend some months.” It’s called Deutch Acadamischa something something, and artists of all sorts, not only in film, are brought over to experience the art community. And so she (by that time she was married)…and her husband moved to….Let me backtrack. She said, “I will only go if it’s okay with you,” meaning me; and I said, “Absolutely I wouldn’t hold you back, this is your career, and this will help to advance your career.” And I said, “This is a different generation.” I said, “Of course, absolutely. Apply for it.” And she got it. They were brought over, they got a stipend every month. They got German lessons. They got health insurance, the whole bit.

Frankel: What field was her husband in?
LABBY: He was a writer. And so they ended up….She had her fellowship extended. And then they decided to stay there because the community was growing and so welcoming to new people in the field. And she was there six years in Berlin, and then came back and decided that filmmaking was not going to provide her with income. She had been asked by the NY film academy to teach in their summer program in Paris. And she had done this for a number of summers and realized she enjoyed teaching, so she began to explore teaching opportunities. She taught at several universities. She’d spend a day here, two days there, and eventually she was spending more time in Philadelphia and taught part-time at Drexel, and they asked her to come on full time and to pursue….

Frankel: Did she have a PhD?
LABBY: Oh no, there isn’t actually a PhD in her field, but they asked her to pursue the…what do you call it, I said it just a minute ago, the security of…

Frankel: To apply for a tenure?
LABBY: Tenure, thank you. Yes, they wanted her to apply for tenure, and so she’s got about another year to go now. She’s making a film right now.

Frankel: What was the film she did for her master’s thesis?
LABBY: That was, it was kind of bizarre. It was interesting. It was about a handicapped man who had a great admiration for a man who got into trouble with the law. And it was a dark film.

Frankel: Was it a documentary?
LABBY: No, no, no. She’s done documentaries; in fact, she was asked to do one for the Philadelphia Museum of Art last year. But she prefers to write her own scripts, and sometimes they’re a little edgy. And this one was, but it did well at all the film festivals. It was this man’s journey through various passages. She did a number of really interesting scripts, but it is such a touch-and-go business. And interestingly enough, when she was very young, I always thought she would be such a fantastic teacher. It was not anything that she ever thought about. And she is so happy dealing with her students. And from the things that she tells us, she must be a very good influence on them. So I’m so delighted she’s found something she can be happy with and still be creative.

Frankel: And your second child?
LABBY: Andrea. I’m spending a lot of time telling you details. Andrea started out wanting to be a doctor and somewhere around the second year of college she decided no, that wasn’t what she wanted to do. She has ended up being now in development. She has been CEO of different non-profits. She’s CEO of the Bainbridge Downtown Association in Bainbridge Island. And she was with a non-profit environmental group on the island for a while. I think development people move from one place to another. But she started out, well, I think of it now watching the Olympics. She was a fantastic gymnast and she did extremely well. She was in state competitions and did well. But half way through college everything turned around (with a little maturity). She moved to Seattle when she was a few years out of college with a college friend of hers and she met her husband. She was doing an interview for a charity event that was to come up and she interviewed him, hoping he would make a contribution to the event. It was a bachelor auction. But that year they were going to have a bachelorette also, a couple of bachelorettes. She interviewed Brian and he came to the auction and bought her. [Laughing] They’ve been happily married for 24 years and they have four wonderful children. 

Frankel: As they were growing up did you join a synagogue? Did they have any kind of…?
LABBY: Oh, absolutely. They all three went to Temple Beth Israel. To Sunday school. And so Lisa was the first to kind of fly the coop; she was our hippie. And she had other interests; she was not confirmed. 

Frankel: Was it still confirmation and not yet Bar, bat mitzvah?  
LABBY: They don’t do confirmation anymore, do they?

Frankel: Either they don’t or they do both.
LABBY: I think maybe they do. I think their newsletter shows confirmation classes. And I don’t understand the difference because the bat mitzvah did not exist. And bar mitzvah was a rare thing at Beth Israel. That’s right. And I think Andrea was confirmed and probably went to high school Sunday school a bit. Karen was confirmed also, and she had friends; I think they went to see their friends.

Frankel: And so Karen’s the third one.
LABBY: Karen’s the third one. She was also a gymnast in high school. They all went to Beaverton High. And when it came time to go to college, she wasn’t quite sure where she wanted to go. She thought she wanted to go to Scripps and she made an application to Scripps. And then we said, “Well you know you ought to think about going to a co-educational college also.” So she just kind of blew away an application to Pitzer and sent it off, and we went down to interview at Scripps, had an appointment. She made her appearance and impressed them and then we said, “Now you go over. We don’t have an appointment but you go over to Pitzer, and we’ll see if you can have an interview there too.” They greeted her with open arms, “Of course you’re here. We’ll make room for you. We’ll find someone to interview you. Meantime, we’ll send one of the students to give your parents a tour of the campus.” Scripps was very uptight, you know. “You may sit here and wait for her. And you can come back in an hour.” Whereas at Pitzer, across the street were just fantastic. And after the interview there they said, “You’re not the same person who made that application. You give us a totally different impression.” She didn’t think she wanted to go there. They said, “Can you send us some documentation, some of your writings and so on?” And of course, they wanted her then, too. She decided on Pitzer. She’s lived in Los Angeles ever since. She comes back to visit. But it was a fabulous experience. It was a wonderful school. And of course she had the advantage (I don’t know if you’re familiar with that series of colleges). She could take classes at any of them. So she really got the best education.

Frankel: What did she major in?
LABBY: Art and literature. I didn’t think she could draw but she became quite a good artist and had an art show before she graduated. At that time she was very much influenced by Egon Schiele and those kinds of weird pictures but she was very good. And she’s still doing some artwork. Then when she graduated and she stayed down there and got an apartment with one of her friends. She didn’t know what she wanted to do. Somehow or other [she] fell into a Los Angeles profession, a stylist. If you know what a fashion stylist is, they dress actors for appearances. They dress music groups. They choose garments and jewelry for magazines. And where she learned it? She just picked it up by helping other friends and eventually became a stylist herself. Well, yes, something so totally different, and it was interesting. But it’s hard work, physical work. It’s really, really a lot of hard work, and down the way she met her husband who had gone to school at Harvey Mudd, just around the corner. They got married and she continued on in her work as a stylist through the first child she had. She would have a nanny who would either bring him to the place where she was working or took care of him at home. The first one was Otis, who was named for a grandfather, the husband’s. Oh, I didn’t tell you what the husbands do: Karen’s husband was a music producer and very, very successful with well-known musicians. He still does music producing. Andrea’s husband was an artist, a ceramic artist. He does big, big pieces, six, eight, nine feet tall. But in order to put food on the table he worked a side early on, in various…. He worked in a brewery…all different kinds of things. Eventually they bought a house and converted a garage space into a huge studio. And for about 15 years or so, he was putting out big pieces. He sold them all over the United States and some overseas. Then when the economy broke down, he had to do something else. So he is now in a fascinating profession. A company that (it sounds uninteresting, but) they figure out sales taxes for manufacturing companies and so on. They differ in every city, county, state, and when you sell to different places, it becomes very complex. But he doesn’t do that figuring; that’s done, I guess, computer wise. He’s a customer relation person. And is perfectly happy. It’s right there on the island, and it’s a worldwide business. It deals not only with United States but businesses all over the world. So he’s found another…I thought he would miss the ceramics, but he doesn’t seem to be too unhappy. I needed to catch up with what the husbands were doing. So Karen now spends her time–she has three children. Her youngest, Millie, is nine, and Violet is 12 almost 13, and Otis is 15. And so she spends a lot of time driving the kids back and forth to school and does a lot of volunteer work. 

Frankel: Do you see them often?
LABBY: Not often enough. We see Karen and her family at least twice a year. We’ve been spending Christmas there, and they come up in the summer for two weeks. And we spend two weeks down there. Ah, Bainbridge more often because we drive back and forth. But they’re also busy, and with kids in sports.They’re all up to their ears in sports. Our oldest granddaughter up there was just chosen as the single representative all-American, both academic and lacrosse, for the state of Washington, and went to Florida for a big all-American game. And her next younger brother, the same weekend, was in Maryland as a representative for the state of Washington for lacrosse. The youngest one is in women’s soccer, and…Conner, the oldest, is at Loyola Marymount in LA. He went down originally because of lacrosse, but now is busy; he’s in the school of Business there. Kelsey, who’s the one who was just in Florida for lacrosse, got a huge lacrosse invitation and grant at Chapman University in California. They are not going to miss the cold wet weather. They all want to go someplace where it is warm and dry. So that kind of fills you in on all.

Frankel: Did you or your children ever go to Israel? Never?
LABBY: And I can’t tell you why. I am not anti-Israel, please understand, I’ve never had a desire. I’ve traveled the world in both directions. I don’t know why. I don’t know what it is. I’m sure if I would go there. And we have friends there besides, the Lamfromms [are] there, we discovered. Arnie’s very good friend when he was growing up has a daughter who lives over there. She keeps inviting us, and my poor excuse is I’m too young to die. You know I know that they are not getting bombed every day, and I don’t know if I’m being, well, just trying to justify something. I cannot tell you. I’m sure one day I will go there and find it absolutely fascinating. I’m sure I don’t have a negative feeling. Not a negative bone in my body about that, but I just have never had a great passion for going there.

Frankel: Well, just in closing, maybe since you’ve lived, and I’ve just made myself a note that you’ve been in this country for 75 years, because you arrived on July 28, 1937, so I figured out it’s been 75 years.
LABBY: Isn’t that amazing? I mean I don’t even feel 75 years old. It’s just, well it’s such a huge number, isn’t it? 

Frankel: Well, everything is relative. And so, any thoughts or any statements about the tremendous changes that you’ve witnessed?
LABBY: Here? Well really, the world over, the world over, really. I mean certainly I tell people often about Portland, which was a very quiet, not quite provincial, but still very, very small town, city when we first arrived. And some were so welcoming to us. But as we all grew up the push was to get out of town, go someplace exciting, go to San Francisco, go to Los Angeles, go somewhere, you know, go see the world. And now everybody wants to come to Portland. No matter where we go, they say, “You’re from Portland, oh, Portland. I hear it’s such a wonderful place.” And it’s the young people who want to come here. It is so exciting. I think it’s wonderful. 

So, that right away comes to mind when you say, “Have you seen changes?” I would say that not always a popular opinion of mine is that Europeans and Germans have changed. This is a younger generation, and we cannot hold them responsible for what their parents and their grandparents did. You know, it’s not a popular opinion, but I feel it so strongly having met so many nice people. When we first visited Lisa in Berlin, I began to open my eyes. Then when we went back and we knocked on the door of the house I grew up in and the people threw their arms around us and said, “I know about you please come in,” and we’ve become fast friends. Everywhere I turn, people are…well, there are people who aren’t nice, people who aren’t nice in Germany, France, England, everywhere, you know. But it has nothing to do with their nationality. 

And I question my opinion, and one day I saw Chella Kryszek at Costco. I said, “I have a question for you. I really need your advice.” And I told her, “I have this feeling, and it’s not popular, but that’s my impression. Am I wrong?” And she said, “Absolutely not, I feel the same way.” And I just couldn’t think of anybody whose judgment I valued more on that subject. So, I’m much more open in expressing my opinion. Of course there are going to be bad people over there. There are going to be Nazis there and there are Nazis here. But you can’t continue to hold a nation responsible for what some of their people did. Or otherwise you end up like all these other countries that kill each other–neighbors kill each other because somebody a thousand years ago did something. Those are my feelings, and certainly having computers and email, my word, we’re in touch with the world. We’re in touch with everybody. I email back and forth with friends all around the world. And get an answer almost immediately. My goodness, what’s the next generation going to find? Isn’t it exciting?

Frankel: It is, it is. 
LABBY: I’ve used up too much of your…

Frankel: Oh no, no, no. Thank you very, very much. This has been, truly…
LABBY: I end up being kind of a motor mouth. [Laughing] Sorry.

Frankel: Oh, thank you 
LABBY: I free-associated. It’s what I did with the book you know. Benina, the director of the museum in Augsburg, would pose a few subjects to me, and then I just sat down and let it all [flow]. Is that okay?

Frankel: Oh, for me that’s the easiest Absolutely.
LABBY: I hope so because so much of this is so fresh in my mind because of the book. You know, things that I hadn’t thought about for a while.