Irv Leopold

Frankel: Good Afternoon, I will ask you to begin by stating your full name, date and place of birth.
LEOPOLD: Irving Leopold born April 3rd, 1926 in Portland, Oregon

Frankel: Can you tell me a little bit about the household you lived in, who lived with you?
LEOPOLD: I was born in 1926, in the Irvington District of Portland. We owned our home there; my mom my dad and two sisters. 

Frankel: Where were you in the line?
LEOPOLD: Third.

Frankel: Were your parents born in the United States as well?
LEOPOLD: My mother was born in Russia came at the age of two to the United States. My dad was born in Germany and came at the age of 16 to the United States.

Frankel: Did they come directly to Portland?
LEOPOLD: No, both went to New York to start with. My dad proceeded on to San Francisco. My mother was in New York, and the family ultimately moved to Portland. 

Frankel: Did they have relatives here?
LEOPOLD: Yes, my grandfather, who came of course with my mother, and his brother and I think one or two other family members were in Portland.  The remainder of the nine brothers and sisters remained in North Dakota. 

Frankel: Did you know your grandfather?
LEOPOLD: My grandfather I knew. My grandmother I did not. I don’t remember her, I was very small.

Frankel: What about your paternal grandparents?
LEOPOLD: No.

Frankel: You did not know them.
LEOPOLD: No. They never came to the United States. My dad came as a single at the age of 16.

Frankel: Did you live with your grandparents or did they live with you?
LEOPOLD: They lived with us.

Frankel: In the same house?
LEOPOLD: Yes, although as I said, my grandfather is the only one I knew. 

Frankel: What languages were spoken in the house?
LEOPOLD: Primarily English. When my grandfather would speak, my sisters would tell him, “Speak English.” He would speak Yiddish I would say, “Sure, Yiddish.”

Frankel: Where did you go to school?
LEOPOLD: I went to elementary school to the seventh Grade at Irvington School. When my two sisters became married. The house was much too large for us during the Depression. We moved to the west side in an apartment on 12th and Harrison Street. Then I went to Shattuck and on to Lincoln. 

Frankel: Do you have any memories from the Depression years?
LEOPOLD: Oh yes, 

Frankel: Can you share any of those memories? 
LEOPOLD: I can share with you a little incident that started my life as a business man. I asked my dad for 10 cents to go to the movies and a nickel to buy a candy bar. My sister overheard it. She said to me, “If you want 15 cents, you earn it.” I was probably seven or eight years old at the time. So I started after school selling Liberty Magazine and [C_ inaudible] Saturday Evening Post one of the two. That was the beginning.

Frankel: What business was your grandfather or your father?
LEOPOLD: My grandfather dealt in junk, and my father, what would I call it? An offshoot of junk itself, in like metals.

Frankel: So, were they affected by the Depression?
LEOPOLD: Oh yes, employment, in the case of my dad. He worked door-to-door, and developed a business dealing with paper mills, garment industry, and that type of thing. My grandfather had a cart and a horse.

Frankel: They were both always self-employed?
LEOPOLD: Yes, part-time my dad did work for Lipmans on Saturday (which was a department store) selling clothes, men’s clothing. 

Frankel: Did your father go to college?
LEOPOLD: No.

Frankel: How about your mother?
LEOPOLD: No.

Frankel: Was your mother employed outside the home?
LEOPOLD: No.

Frankel: Back to the Depression years, were there literally people hungry?
LEOPOLD: Yes, there were, I never saw them. I’m sure that there were. As I recall there was a Mrs. Robison, which is the Robison Home. She kind of came around for the underclass (down trodden – whatever you want to call them) soliciting anything that she could get, be it in the form of money, groceries anything of that nature. I remember that time. 

Frankel: Was your family involved with the Jewish community?
LEOPOLD: My dad and grandfather were. My grandfather was one of the starters of the Neveh Zedek Synagogue. Which eventually merged with the Ahavai Sholom to have the Neveh Shalom Synagogue.

Frankel: Do you know if there were agencies at the time to help indigent people?
LEOPOLD: I’m sure there were. I didn’t know of any. I did know about the [Old Peoples Home], which morphed into the Robison Home. I was there when the original, on third and Lincoln, was in business. My dad, my grandfather and I, (I was 10, 12 years old) went there to help them out on the High Holidays. 

Frankel: With services?
LEOPOLD: At the services, yes. We didn’t conduct services, but they were there. To create a minyan, or whatever, people.

Frankel: Before we go on, can you name your parents and grandfather?
LEOPOLD: My grandfather was David Nudelman. My father was Sam Leopold. My mother was Pearl Leopold. 

Frankel: And your sisters?
LEOPOLD: Maiden name, Sureta Leopold, and Nora Leopold.

Frankel: So your grandfather was your maternal, clearly. 
LEOPOLD: Yes.

Frankel: Are you related to the Nudelmans in town?
LEOPOLD: All part of the original Nudelman family, that’s correct. I think there were nine children. It’s a huge family, and not all of them are in Portland, as I say, probably half of them are in North Dakota.

Frankel: What brought them to North Dakota?
LEOPOLD: One brother was there. He brought the family out from New York. He got a living. He had a farm. The fact is, a little tidbit on the side, one of the counties in North Dakota is named Eddy County. That’s one of the brothers, the originals.

Frankel: Can you describe a little bit about Jewish life in your home growing up?
LEOPOLD: When my grandfather was alive and my mother thereafter kept a kosher home. 

Frankel: Can you describe a Friday night?
LEOPOLD: Vaguely, I think we had Friday night dinners of course, but I don’t think they were all that ceremonial, that’s for sure.

Frankel: What about other Jewish Holidays like Passover?
LEOPOLD: We celebrated it – Orthodox. I remember they had apple box slats for the drain boards. Another set of dishes, that type of thing. 

Frankel: What kind of Jewish education did you receive?
LEOPOLD: Well, I wasn’t too much for education, but I did start Hebrew School at the age of about seven. 

Frankel: Where?
LEOPOLD: They had Irvington Hebrew School for the formative years. Probably two or three years before we moved to the west side. Then I went to the Neighborhood House. 

Frankel: Do you recall any of those teachers?
LEOPOLD: Yes, and not too fondly because I was not the best student in the world. At the time I had other things on my mind, such as to get a few bucks to live because I took it upon myself to buy my own shoes and that type of thing. It was the Depression; it was tough times.

Frankel: Did you have a bar mitzvah?
LEOPOLD: I did.

Frankel: Do you remember? Who did you study with, and what did your bar mitzvah consist of?
LEOPOLD: Well, at the Hebrew School David Gass was one of the teachers. Allan Holzman was one of the teachers. In Irvington there was a fellow named [Cronitch?] None of which I liked.

Frankel: What did you do on your bar mitzvah day?
LEOPOLD: At that time, as I say, it was the Depression; there wasn’t a heck of a lot of money. As I recall we had cookies, and wine obviously.

Frankel: What synagogue was that?
LEOPOLD: Neveh Zedek. But I managed to get through it. I assure you I had a mistake or two, but I did get through. 

Frankel: Did you actually read from the Torah?
LEOPOLD: Well, I had to read the sections that you did normally. The bruchah, that type of thing, but I couldn’t read the main text, per say.

Frankel: What kind of gifts did kids receive in those year?
LEOPOLD: There used to be a running joke about getting a fountain pen, but I don’t recall receiving that. I didn’t get a heck of a lot to be honest with you. Nobody had any money in those days. And if they did have it, they sure as hell maintained it. Cause you never knew from day to day.

Frankel: Were there many Jewish kids in your public school in the Irvington area?
LEOPOLD: Yes, there were a few, yes. Not as many as when I went to Shattuck and, of course, Lincoln.

Frankel: Who did your parents socialize with? Jewish, non-Jewish?
LEOPOLD: Oh no, all Jewish.

Frankel: What about you, your friends?
LEOPOLD: I’d say about 90% at that time.

Frankel: What kind of games did you play?
LEOPOLD: Well that was one of my long suits. I played several sports. I liked to play tennis. I liked to play basketball. Then we had a couple other things that we did. Roller hockey with roller-skates. That type of thing.

Frankel: Were you members at the Jewish Community Center?
LEOPOLD: Not at that time. I became a member at the Jewish Community Center right after the war.

Frankel: What did your family do for entertainment on weekends?
LEOPOLD: They used to have card games. There was some of that. We used to have picnics. That type of thing.

Frankel: What about in the summer, were you able to go away?
LEOPOLD: Yes, I don’t know how they did it but my dad managed to do three or four weeks a year in Seaside. 

Frankel: Did your father join you?
LEOPOLD: Yes, he would come down normally on weekends, and then he would spend the week there himself. Subsequent to that deal he would go down there during the year for a long weekend type thing.

Frankel: As a young child, do you remember experiencing any antisemitism?
LEOPOLD: Really not. I don’t think I ran into much of that until I got into the service. I’m sure there were some. At that time, everybody was pretty much in the same boat. There was one black kid in our area. We all got along famously. The Italians were very close to the Jewish kids in those days.

Frankel: Was that in Irvington or in the southwest?
LEOPOLD: The southwest.

Frankel: Can you describe South Portland and the Jewish neighborhood? What was it like?
LEOPOLD: Well, we didn’t live specifically…the Jewish neighborhood was the Fulton district, and then it was southwest First, Second, Third, Fourth, up to Broadway. Virtually nobody above Broadway [unintelligible]. We lived on 12th, so we were a little bit away from it not very far, but a little bit. In those days, you walked. There’s no such thing as school buses or anything else. We walked to Neighborhood House for Hebrew lessons. That’s probably why I didn’t get along with anybody. It was a long distance from our house.

Frankel: Would you go shopping in South Portland?
LEOPOLD: Yes, that we did, oh yes. The kosher market was there. The delicatessens were there. I think that’s the extent of it, but I mean that was an every-week deal.

Frankel: Do you remember? Was there was a divide between the Eastern European Jews and the German Jews in Portland?
LEOPOLD: Well, I already had that combo, my dad being the German and my mother the Russian. To be honest with you during the war time there were a lot of refugees that came to our house.

Frankel: Were you then considered part of the German Jews in town?
LEOPOLD: No, no.  I could say we were the Russian heritage, Polish.

Frankel: When you say you remember the German refugees. What do you recall? Did you have classmates?
LEOPOLD: When we lived in Irvington, we had a large front porch. Great view. There were several families that my dad had over from time to time for Sunday lunch that type of thing.

Frankel: When you say people over. Those were German refugees?
LEOPOLD: Yes, they came here I imagine in late 30’s.

Frankel: Were they classmates of yours?
LEOPOLD: No, they were older.

Frankel: No children that were classmates.
LEOPOLD: No.

Frankel: In 1941, what are your memories of Pearl Harbor?
LEOPOLD: Selling papers. The existing, called the Stadium in those days. Which has since been renamed. They had a center island on 18th street. I remember standing on that. Some cars came up to the signal. I would sell papers. Probably sold 100 papers that day.

Frankel: Oh, you had papers announcing already to tell them what happened.
LEOPOLD: Oh yeah, “War Declared” or “War Starts.” “Pearl Harbor Bombed.” I can’t remember the headline. Anyway, that was that day.

Frankel: What exactly were your memories? Because you were in high school still.
LEOPOLD: That’s right. I helped form a fire volunteer fire truck. The city of Portland supplied the truck, and we had an all-Jewish crew. We would practice once a week on the weekend. Laying hoses, tightening them up as a backup to the fire department.

Frankel: Were there any Japanese classmates in your school?
LEOPOLD: I’m sure there were, but I don’t remember any of them by name. We did have a student body president, but I’m almost certain that he was Chinese.

Frankel: So you don’t remember suddenly the Japanese classmates disappearing?
LEOPOLD: I do remember the incident of them leaving. Because there were a few grocery stores that were bought out probably so much on the dollar at that time. I remember the incident of one of the busiest ones that was bought out. They were gone.

Frankel: Did you ever question what happened to them?
LEOPOLD: No, well I knew that they went to Idaho. Yeah. As to whether that was good, bad or otherwise at the time it seemed like it was good. Because nobody knew what anybody was doing. It was so sudden. You didn’t know who was loyal and who was not loyal. Who would give their life and who would not. And that was the sentiment at that time.

Frankel: Did you know many people who were drafted?
LEOPOLD: Probably all of my fellow students were.

Frankel: Before they graduated from high school?
LEOPOLD: Either immediately before, or immediately after. I went in at the age of 17. I volunteered for a program which was a college program called A12 program, an Army program. 

Frankel: What was that?
LEOPOLD: Well, they sent me to Pasadena Junior College. I was part of the program that 90

[recording session ends here]

[Second recording session]

Frankel: Good afternoon
LEOPOLD: Good afternoon

Frankel: Let’s continue from where we left off when you were enrolled in that special army program in Pasadena.
LEOPOLD: Yes, it was known as the A12 program. It was a national program for high school graduates. It’s a preliminary for going to one of the professional specialties that the Army was training you. So, I went there in March, and in June…

Frankel: March of…?
LEOPOLD: ’44. They closed the program out nationally except for those in pre-med and those in advanced engineering classes.

Frankel: Which training had you gotten?
LEOPOLD: Well, I was in basic which was really very early training for engineering. Why, I don’t know, because that was not one of my long suits, to be candid. But anyway they closed it out. From there I went to basic training right in service during the war at Fort Lewis.

Frankel: Is that in Washington?
LEOPOLD: Up in Washington. I went for specialties where they were going to train you with what you probably could do best other than be a rifleman. I don’t think I could qualify as a rifleman because at the time I only weighed 132 pounds which was way underweight. So they assigned me to artillery training at Camp Roberts, CA. At Camp Roberts they assigned me to radio school, which I did down there. The graduates of that class went either east or west. If they went west, they went to the Pacific. If they went east, they went to the German conflict. 

Frankel: That was already pretty late in the war.
LEOPOLD: It was June of ’44. The war ended approximately a year later in May of ’45.

Frankel: So you were chosen to go east?
LEOPOLD: I went east, fortunately. I was sent to the east to Germany. We landed in France, and the war was on, obviously. It was just immediately after the Battle of the Bulge. We carried on there and went in to combat…Eastern France. Our Division the 71st Infantry Division went clear across Germany and wound up in Austria at the end of the war on one side of the Steyr River. We were on the west bank, and the Russian army was on the east bank, and that’s where the war ended. That was in early ’45. It was in May of ’45.

Frankel: When you travelled through Germany, what did you see?
LEOPOLD: Well it was combat, and we fired on positions. My job was specifically to be in contact with the spotter planes to direct the artillery airplane. I was on the ground, and giving the coordinates of where these spotter planes where Germans were, so we could fire on those positions. 

Frankel: Did you see civilians as you were driving through towns?
LEOPOLD: Oh yes, we took over facilities and the civilians were told to leave. They could follow us when we left back to their homes. Cause we would sleep as much as we could in somebody’s home overnight. We would have contact with the various operations that were going on to know if we were to fire at that time or just stand down until they called on us. Then we would move on.

Frankel: When you slept in those civilians’ homes, were they told to leave?
LEOPOLD: Yes.

Frankel: Did you sense animosity or fear in their eyes?
LEOPOLD: Fear. Because we weren’t fooling around at that time. We had seen what was happening to some of our soldiers. They gave no quarter to us, so our deal essentially (it was not my station in life) the commanding officers would tell them, “You get out and when we leave you can come back, not before.” That was how it worked across Germany.

Frankel: Did you eat their food?
LEOPOLD: No, we had our own. No, no.

Frankel: By the time you got to Europe, did you know about the concentration camps?
LEOPOLD: I’m sure I did, and we over ran a very small one in Germany. They had not had food for seven days and no water for three. They were essentially walking skeletons, and there were dead people on the floor. 

Frankel: Were those Jewish inmates?
LEOPOLD: All Jewish.

Frankel: Do you remember the name of that camp?
LEOPOLD: I do not. It was very small, and I imagine maybe one hundred people there at one time. I don’t know. I do remember the long feeling that I had about the floor itself was logs driven into the ground… in mud, and that was the floor. I remember that like today.

Frankel: Were you able to provide them with anything or was there another unit?
LEOPOLD: Yes, we did as a matter of fact. We brought in water with a water truck. By the superiors. They didn’t provide any food at that time. But, of course, that was a matter of an hour or two after we arrived. What to do? They had to clear it with higher ups yet as to what to provide them. I was in a jeep, and on the dash [board] we had a package of charms which were individually wrapped hard candies. One of them came over and looked at it longingly, and the little bit of Yiddish that I knew, I said to him, “nemen” which means “take.” I could remember his answer back which was “Ach! a yid” That was one of the memories of combat.

Frankel: By the time you got to the camp the Nazi guards had left?
LEOPOLD: We got to a couple of them, and one of them was delegated to have the nozzle from the water truck to put into a basin, a huge basin. And, of course, the inmates were standing over the basin looking at the water going into the bucket. One of the jokers we had in the Army, because he wanted something to happen to that guard that we captured, so he turned on the water full flush and some of it spilled onto the street, and I thought the inmates were going to kill the guy, but it didn’t happen. That was one of the memories.

Frankel: Until when were you in Germany? Until when were you in Europe? Until what approximate date?
LEOPOLD: In Germany?

Frankel: Right, in Germany, and then you said you went to Vienna.
LEOPOLD: We passed through Germany and several cities that our division went through. Then we went into Austria. That’s where we met up with the Russians. 

Frankel: The war was still on?
LEOPOLD: No, that’s where it ended; at that point.

Frankel: How were you received by the Austrian civilians?
LEOPOLD: Austrian civilians…what can I say? They were not hostile toward us that I could see, but of course they better not have been because we were taking no prisoners at that time. Actually we were, but what I’m talking about is that they knew we meant business.

Frankel: Did you actually witness guards being killed?
LEOPOLD: No, I did not… I did not.

Frankel: What about the displaced persons camp? Did you see any of the civilians, what happened to them after the war?
LEOPOLD: They tried to fend for themselves best they could. I knew our outfit, there were a couple of teenage girls we contributed some food to. I think they both had dysentery. We set them up in a hotel in the city of Wells in Austria. Beyond that I didn’t stray too much away from the base. I didn’t want to get myself in the position of getting captured because I was sure there’d be some Germans that would decide at the very end to take a prisoner or two if they could.

Frankel: Did you feel as an American soldier or as a Jewish individual?
LEOPOLD: First as an American soldier and secondly, if you were Jewish, that was a main problem. They didn’t know who the Jews were at that time, but everybody had a dog tag which had a…I believe it was an H on it as I remember, Hebrew. 

Frankel: Were there other Jewish soldiers in your unit?
LEOPOLD: We had three or four.

Frankel: Was there ever a chaplain? Do you remember having any?
LEOPOLD: None there what-so-ever. Camp Roberts is the only time I ever saw one.

Frankel: Did you have any interactions with any Russians in Austria?
LEOPOLD: No, none. They stayed on their side and we were on our side.

Frankel: Combat had ended so what did you do?
LEOPOLD: Well we became, at that time, occupation troops. We were taken back to Germany, and I had a clerk’s job. I applied for a clerk’s job. One month later, there was some information passed along, “Anyone interested in going into journalism, there’s a couple of troops needed to go over to the occupation force of Bavaria in Munich.” I applied and they took me on. I spent a couple or three months there at that point. My dad took sick and I don’t know how it was handled from Portland, but they got the Red Cross to send a request that I return to Portland. I wasn’t due for discharge for probably two or three more months, so being I was that close to it, the Army sent me home.

Frankel: Before you went home, was there a lot of destruction in Munich?
LEOPOLD: Oh yes, a lot of buildings were down. Things in the street, bricks, that type of thing.

Frankel: Was there a base for the American soldiers?
LEOPOLD: Yes, we were stationed at a former army post in Munich. 

Frankel: A German army post?
LEOPOLD: A German army post.

Frankel: What were the conditions like?
LEOPOLD: Clean and nice. They were fine.

Frankel: Did you try and make any contact with the Jewish community?
LEOPOLD: I did not, and that is one of my regrets because around the time I was about to leave, Ben-Gurion was giving a speech in Munich, and I didn’t go. Not that I could have necessarily gone on my own, but I could have requested that they allow me to go. But then they’d have to send somebody with me that’s a jeep driver, and what have you, so I decided…I truthfully did not know much about Ben-Gurion at that point. This was in 1946 and there was not State of Israel at that point in time.

Frankel: But how did you hear that he was going to speak there?
LEOPOLD: Part of my job was to handle a column for the Bayerische paper there, which was writing the entertainment column for where entertainment was throughout Bavaria – USO acts that type of thing and any top entertainers if they happened to go through. Movies, where they were playing and so on.  So the troops would have a program to look at where they could go. That was about it for Germany. And then I came home.

Frankel: During the war were you able to write home and were you able to receive letters?
LEOPOLD: Oh yes. Yes I did.

Frankel: What would you write home about?
LEOPOLD: Just how things were going and what have you for me and questions about how things were at home. My dad was kind of sickly most of his life, and I guess he was able to circumvent, at that time, passing on. When I got home, he had some small recovery. He lasted probably another ten years or so.

Frankel: Did members of your family keep the letters you sent from the war?
LEOPOLD: If they did, I never saw them.

Frankel: Hiroshima, Nagasaki, any memories from that?
LEOPOLD: That was in Japan. Oh, I knew about it, sure, that we ended the war.

Frankel: And your reaction as an American soldier?
LEOPOLD: Well, all I know is what I can tell you about fellow soldiers. They were tickled pink that we ended the war right then and there. We lost probably about a million men if we had invaded Japan. So it was them or us. And to this day, some of my friends were in the Navy at that time, and they figured it was going to be the end of their life because some of them were on picket ships which guarded the heavier navy ships. And that’s where the Japanese fighter planes and bombers went, tried to knock those out first. That was that story.

Frankel: So, you’re back home, what now?
LEOPOLD: Decided to go to college. Went one year to Portland University. I thought advertising was a good field to get into. They had only one course at Portland University on that subject, so I transferred to Lewis and Clark which I knew had three or four, as well as business courses, and that’s where I graduated.

Frankel: When you say Portland University. Is that what Portland State University is today?
LEOPOLD: No, University of Portland.

Frankel: Oh, the Catholic School.
LEOPOLD: Correct.

Frankel: Did you live at home?
LEOPOLD: I lived at home, yes.

Frankel: I know you had two sisters, older sisters, correct?
LEOPOLD: That is correct.

Frankel: Where were they in their lives at that time? Did they go to college?
LEOPOLD: Neither of them. We had to work, and that includes me. Things were tough during the Depressions years. During the war years, I wasn’t available. Both of those worked.

Frankel: Would you say that women were not truly expected to attend college?
LEOPOLD: I don’t think there was any great force behind it, no. Not like today, I think. There’s a certain amount of ego and status symbol right, and education is extremely important. But I wanted to go to college to be the first in my family, and I was.

Frankel: Were your sisters married by the time you got back from Europe?
LEOPOLD: My older sister was, yes.

Frankel: Her name was?
LEOPOLD: Nora Lee Weinstein.

Frankel: She lived in Portland?
LEOPOLD: Lived in Portland. For a short time they were in Chicago. 

Frankel: Were you working at the same time that you were going to school?
LEOPOLD: Yes, after school.

Frankel: What did you do?
LEOPOLD: At that point in time I decided I would maybe peddle candy and tobacco to Mom and Pop grocery stores because they didn’t have the ability to inventory too much. They were always looking for suppliers. I made a little bit of money. Nothing to get great shakes about, but I made some.

Frankel: How did you come up with that idea?
LEOPOLD: I knew somebody that I’d grown up with, and his father did that during the war. He told me about where I could purchase wholesale candy and tobacco. Put it in a truck that I bought, and that’s what I did.

Frankel: How big an area did you cover?
LEOPOLD: Portland.

Frankel: All Portland.
LEOPOLD: Yes. I’d develop a route after a period of time. I just supplied those people. 

Frankel: When you went into advertising, did you envision yourself doing something specific?
LEOPOLD: No, and I didn’t go into advertising as such. When I graduated college, it was the first downturn in looking for college graduates. We were kind of a recession time in 1949. There were very few people from the various businesses, large corporations, interviewing college students. None came through Lewis and Clark except one from Wriggly, and they had a few people, and I didn’t want to get into a contest with them. So, I decided I would strike out on my own, and I went into the auto polish business. I hired a crew and opened up downtown Portland a detail shop. From there we had nice business through the summer time. There’s not that much goes on in the winter time, so I developed a wholesale business for car dealers where they could have their cars properly prepared and almost on a minute’s notice. We had developed a program, or the company had, supplied us with the polish to have a crew of three or four per car detailing. One did one side and the other did the other side. Then they detailed the car and get it ready for delivery. Exterior wise. From there I met some good wholesale managers, used car managers. They all told me to get into the used car business, and that’s how I developed that. Started from there.

Frankel: How do you learn such a trade?
LEOPOLD: Trial and error.

Frankel: Were you a mechanic?
LEOPOLD: Absolutely not, just the opposite it. If the car goes I go, if the car doesn’t go, I stayed. That’s right.

Frankel: When you went to school, did go on the GI bill?
LEOPOLD: I did go on the GI bill, you bet.

Frankel: What other benefits did soldiers receive when they came back from the war?
LEOPOLD: You qualified, which I never took advantage of until later years, for the hospital deal, Veterans hospital. I always had [insurance], privately. The only thing I have over there now is hearing aids, that’s it.

Frankel: Did you stay in touch with soldiers you served with?
LEOPOLD: I did not, no. There was nobody from Portland. There’s nobody, I even believe, from the west coast in our outfit, our immediate outfit. They were all mid-west and east.

Frankel: Did you have any antisemitic experiences serving?
LEOPOLD: Not of any major consequence. There were some innuendos or some ignoring that type of thing. Not, enough. No, I managed to get along sufficiently in the service.

Frankel: Did you do anything Jewish during your service?
LEOPOLD: Yes, I did. I went to High Holidays.

Frankel: Where?
LEOPOLD: In Germany.

Frankel: Was it just for soldiers?
LEOPOLD: Just for soldiers.

Frankel: Do you have any memories of that service and the experience?
LEOPOLD: Yes, I do. It was a little bit different. It wasn’t quite as…intense, Hebrew. It was more or less a combination of English and some Hebrew. I imagine at the service we would have eight or ten people. There was a synagogue in Munich that we went to as I recall, yes, and it was partially destroyed. 

Frankel: But still functioning?
LEOPOLD: I don’t know what it did beyond the High Holidays that we attended ourselves. It was conducted by Americans.

Frankel: You finished in ’49, so do you have memories of ’48 when the State of Israel was established?
LEOPOLD: To a degree I do yes, and I remember that Truman recognized Israel. I remember that. The State of Israel I don’t think that was ’48, was it?

Frankel: May of ’48.
LEOPOLD: It was ’48, OK.

Frankel: What was your social life like when you went to college?
LEOPOLD: It was centered around the Jewish Community Center at that time it was known as B’nai B’rith [Center]. It was a continuation as I was growing up, and we had our own building at that time as I recall. 

Frankel: Where was that located?
LEOPOLD: On 13th just off Montgomery. It’s a freeway now.

Frankel: Did you continue to attend services? Neveh Zedek had not merged yet.
LEOPOLD: It had not merged. We were Neveh Zedek. My grandfather was one of the founders of Neveh Zedek.

Frankel: Then when did you meet your wife?
LEOPOLD: 1958 as a matter of fact. A double date. She was with somebody else. I asked him if he was interested in her beyond dating, and he said no. “Do you mind if I date her?” I had already planned a vacation for myself to go to Florida. When I got back I invited her to have a date, and she accepted, and that was it. 

Frankel: Was she from Portland?
LEOPOLD: Yes.

Frankel: What was her maiden name, and her full name?
LEOPOLD: Rhoda Rodinsky, and I associated her with another girl whose name was Rosumny and I knew what she looked like, and I wasn’t interested. 

Frankel: You had never met her before even though?
LEOPOLD: No, that double date was the first time.

Frankel: Was the Jewish community not small enough that you kind of knew each other, all of you?
LEOPOLD: I think I told you I subsequently moved to the west side. She was part of the Grant High crowd, and I was Lincoln High. So there was no real opportunity to meet her, I was working and the war was on, no, it was over at that time. She went to the University of Washington and I went to Lewis and Clark. 

Frankel: Did your sisters graduate from high school?
LEOPOLD: I’m not exactly sure. I’d say probably not. At that time everybody worked. You didn’t get much money, you know, like 46 [cents?] an hour, 45. And Nora did not work after she married her husband Max. 

Frankel: They stayed in Portland?
LEOPOLD: They lived in Portland for a very few years, and then Max’s brother-in-law had an entertainment company that produced the first walk-a-thon. 

Frankel: What’s that?
LEOPOLD: That’s where people walk until they drop. They had entertainment, and people would go there and watch them walk around a track. Day after day after day until they got down to… maybe they started with 20 couples and wound up with one.

Frankel: Was that in Portland?
LEOPOLD: It was a traveling deal at that time. Called the [inaudible]. He moved the whole enterprise to Chicago. My brother-in-law went along with him, not as a contestant but working in the commissary.

Frankel: What was his last name?
LEOPOLD: Weinstein.

Frankel: Then when you got married, were you already in the used car business?
LEOPOLD: Yes, as a matter of fact I was beyond that. I had just started the new car business at that time. I met Rhoda in January; we got married in December. And probably during the summertime I went into the car business.

Frankel: Was your wife’s family a member of any synagogue?
LEOPOLD: Yes, Ahavai Sholom.

Frankel: Oh, so it was also on the west side.
LEOPOLD: The synagogue was, yes, yes.

Frankel: Where did you get married. Who officiated?
LEOPOLD: We go married at Ahavai Sholom, and I think we had two rabbis. We had Kleinman and Sydney. As I remember.

Frankel: Sydney was the last name?
LEOPOLD: Yes.

Frankel: Was he from Ahavai Sholom?
LEOPOLD: Yes.

Frankel: Was it a very traditional wedding?
LEOPOLD: Pretty much so, yes.

Frankel: Were your parents still alive?
LEOPOLD: My mother.

Frankel: Where did you live when you first got married?
LEOPOLD: We lived in a triplex.

Frankel: On the west side?
LEOPOLD: Eastside, close to where my dealership was.

Frankel: Where was your dealership?
LEOPOLD: In Milwaukie.

Frankel: What was the name of it?
LEOPOLD: Irv Leopold Imports.

Frankel: What cars did you sell?
LEOPOLD: The first one I had was British Motorcars. Which was MG, Austin Healy, Sprite, Morris Minor and Austin.

Frankel: You had partners in the business? Or were you always alone?
LEOPOLD: No, I learned to do it all by myself because there is too much conflict with partners.

Frankel: I’m trying to also see the changes in the roles of women. Did you mother drive?
LEOPOLD: No.

Frankel: Did your wife drive when you met her?
LEOPOLD: Yes, she did.

Frankel: Did she also have a career outside the home when you met her?
LEOPOLD: She was working for Union Pacific Railroad at the superintendent’s office.

Frankel: When you got married, did she continue?
LEOPOLD: No.

Frankel: Would you say that you had a Jewish home?
LEOPOLD: Oh definitely.

Frankel: Can you elaborate?
LEOPOLD: Well, I made sure my kids went to services. My son became bar mitzvah. My daughter became bat mitzvah. 

Frankel: In terms of celebrating Shabbat or holidays?
LEOPOLD: Well, we knew what that was. I don’t know if we had any formal deal about anything like candles and that sort of thing.

Frankel: What about Passover?
LEOPOLD: Definitely.

Frankel: At your house or your mother’s house?
LEOPOLD: Our house. 

Frankel: And Services, when did the two synagogues merge. Did you continue to go to Ahavai Sholom until the merger or…?
LEOPOLD: Oh yes, definitely that. There was no reason really to stay on to Neveh Zedek. My mom, I think, had passed away by that time. I’m not sure. Maybe for the immediate year or two she was still alive. If she was, I wouldn’t have let her be alone, that’s for sure.

Frankel: Could you tell the difference between the two synagogues?
LEOPOLD: Well, the original criteria was that one had an organ and the other one didn’t. And a choir as well. Which one had the organ? Ahavai Shalom. Rabbi Kleinman, he was not a decent guy to appreciate and get along with per say. He was…I would call it a little bit dictatorial. The rabbis today are totally different. There’s no question.

Frankel: Can you give an example of his being dictatorial…he wasn’t very tall was he?
LEOPOLD: No, he was not very tall. Just a…I shouldn’t probably be telling you this, but anyway, the grieving period, when my dad passes away and I observed it for 11 months. He was not the most consoling person at the time of the burial. I thought, not like today. This is the way he did it. It wasn’t just me; it was everybody. You know the wailing and everything that goes with it? Which is very hard on the person which is involved that’s still living. I thought. They don’t do that anymore.

Frankel: Between the time you came back from the war and the time you got married, about ten years, did you see changes in community, both the Jewish community and the community at large?
LEOPOLD: Yes, Portland was a great place to live. Traffic was not like it is today, obviously. People were a lot friendlier, I thought, in those days. You knew pretty much everybody. We had a small Jewish community compared to what it is today, like it’s for sure three to four times larger than it was in those days.

Frankel: Were there certain events that brought the entire community together, like annual balls or any type of event that brought everyone together?
LEOPOLD: No, you might have one within your own synagogue. You might have one within B’nai B’rith. Something like that, but not community-wide where everybody attended.

Frankel: What role did the Jewish Community Center play in the years you…?
LEOPOLD: In my views, the Jewish Community Center was…The B’nai B’rith I should say, really, was where I did my athletic things. Basketball, AZA…dances. This was in high school. Afterward there was not that much going on as far as everybody was kind of doing their own thing.

Frankel: Socially, who were your friends? Were they primarily Jewish?
LEOPOLD: Primarily Jewish.

Frankel: Thinking back now, was there a reason why?
LEOPOLD: Comfort.

Frankel: Can you elaborate a little bit?
LEOPOLD: Most of us were on the lower rung, economic-wise. We all rose above it, most or all of us. There’s comradely feeling there as a result.

Frankel: Do you feel that the same is true for your children’s generation?
LEOPOLD: No. I do not. I think that these children, my children, grandchildren primarily…have their own thing. They are much brighter in school. Their friends are mostly gentile because of availability. Jewish, it’s wide-spread in Portland. There’s no central deal as such. The Jewish Community Center is co-educational…

Frankel: Open to Jews and non-Jews. 
LEOPOLD: That’s correct.

Frankel: Tell me when your children were born, and add names to them.
LEOPOLD: My children were born 50 and 52 years ago. 

Frankel: What’s the name of your… you have a son?
LEOPOLD: I have a son, Michael, daughter Heidi. Very good kids.

Frankel: They live in town?
LEOPOLD: Yes, they live in town. Their family’s here, and they carry on – the faith.

Frankel: Do you remember the merger between Ahavai Sholom and Neveh Zedek?
LEOPOLD: I do.

Frankel: Was it seamless, was it easy?
LEOPOLD: It was necessary.

Frankel: Why?
LEOPOLD: Well, both of them were not functioning profitably. The survivor was probably, definitely Ahavai Sholom. Although Neveh Zedek contributed a little bit more because the building was paid for and everything else.

Frankel: The building was still downtown.
LEOPOLD: That’s correct, and it was purchased by Danny Davis as I recall. 

Frankel: Who was he?
LEOPOLD: He was a contractor, a Jewish contractor in Portland.

Frankel: What happened to the building?
LEOPOLD: They tore it down, and I believe now it’s a dormitory for Portland State college.

Frankel: What happened to the two rabbis once the two synagogues merged?
LEOPOLD: Well, as I recall, Kleinman retired and Sydney was the survivor of the two. I can’t fully recall that. Maybe both of them carried on even though they were not housed under one roof. I don’t believe at the outset anyone.

Frankel: At which point did Rabbi Stampfer step in, do you know?
LEOPOLD: He stepped in when we built… I think this is correct, the new building here on the west side. My wife’s grandfather, who was very instrumental in getting him here. My wife’s uncle was head of commissary for Union Pacific Railroad. He brought him out here in the train, took care of him at no charge, as I recall, and everything else. One of the wisest decisions this community ever made.

Frankel: What was your wife’s uncle’s name?
LEOPOLD: Harry Rubin

Frankel: Would you say the members of those synagogues joined or did some go off to other congregations?
LEOPOLD: I imagine that very few were lost because we were the only conservative synagogues in Portland at that time.

Frankel: Did you know people who belonged to other congregations…Beth Israel or Shaarie Torah?
LEOPOLD: A few from Shaarie Torah. I didn’t know too many at that time. Didn’t know too many from Beth Israel. A few, but not many.

Frankel: Which congregation was considered the largest or most prominent congregation?
LEOPOLD: At that time, the spokesperson for the Jewish Community was Beth Israel. The rabbi.

Frankel: Who was that at the time?
LEOPOLD: There was Berkowitz, that name strikes a note. I can’t remember his name. One of them was quite an actor.

Frankel: Would you say there was a good rapport between the rabbis from the different congregations?
LEOPOLD: I think to a degree, but not as much as there is today.

Frankel: Besides the religious leaders, who comes to mind as other leaders in the Jewish community. Civic leaders or others?
LEOPOLD: Probably one of the most influential is Meier, from Meier & Frank. He was a governor of the State. Can’t remember anybody else in my youth that hold that position.

Frankel: How would you say the Jewish community changed? I know you talked about the numbers, but in terms of education and the children? You said your children and grandchildren are much better educated.
LEOPOLD: Yes, they are.

Frankel: Do you mean Jewishly as well?
LEOPOLD: Well that came from the synagogue itself, Sunday School.  We didn’t have a Sunday School.

Frankel: But you had a Hebrew School.
LEOPOLD: Had a Hebrew school.

Frankel: Do you have fond memories from that period?
LEOPOLD: I do not.

Frankel: What about your children?
LEOPOLD: Children with Hebrew school? They didn’t go. They were taught by the Sunday School. 

Frankel: Did they fight going there or did they enjoy going?
LEOPOLD: They didn’t fight for sure; they went through it. My granddaughter and grandson through there bat and bar mitzvah went.

Frankel: You described your own bar mitzvah. How different and similar were your children’s and grandchildren’s bar and bat mitzvah?
LEOPOLD: Night and day. They did a wonderful job. Me, I had to walk. I walked from 12th and Harrison street to Neighborhood House. It’s got to be at least two miles. For education, and I had to walk back; that was a daily chore. 

Frankel: You went every day?
LEOPOLD: Yes. Five days a week. Then I cut it down after that almost completely once I became bar mitzvah, and went to work. I started out with a paper route, and became a station manager. The station actually was very close to the Neighborhood House. A little beyond. Had to walk there too.

Frankel: You mentioned that you never made it to Israel.
LEOPOLD: No, that’s a regret.

Frankel: What about your children and grandchildren?
LEOPOLD: My grandson and son-in law have been to Israel. They are the only ones so far.

Frankel: [to Heidi] I’ll turn to you now if you wish to ask any questions.

Heidi: Ronnie wanted me to ask you to talk about who was your first kiss, and how old were you?
LEOPOLD: First kiss, G-d, I don’t know. I will say this, that the girls in those days were a lot different than the girls today. I mean if you held hands you were very lucky in those days. They were very puritan. I can’t remember who the first one was.

Frankel: Was the expectation from your parents that you would marry a Jewish woman?
LEOPOLD: Oh, definitely, yes, and I would never had done otherwise because it would have been affront to my parents and I wouldn’t go that route. I would have never married before I would do that.

Frankel: Do you think this is instilled in the next generation as well?
LEOPOLD: As far as I tried to do it they were instilled with it.

Heidi: Tell her what you used to say to me? When I was about eight he would say, “It’s very important….(do you remember this?)
LEOPOLD: No, go ahead

Heidi: “…that you marry somebody Jewish because the Jewish population…” Do you remember that?
LEOPOLD: Yes, it would dwindle if we had Jews and non-Jews, even though the other side would come over take the faith, their children would always be, betwixt and between. 

Heidi: Did you talk with her about growing up with a kosher family?
LEOPOLD: My dad was on the borderline. And as long as my mother was alive I tried to maintain the best I could. When she passed away, after that, I married somebody who was in the meat business and was non-kosher. They were a big wholesale house.

Frankel: Your wife’s parents?
LEOPOLD: Yes, and I kind of went that route with her, too. 

Frankel: I also meant to ask: you said your father came by himself from Germany.
LEOPOLD: That’s correct.

Frankel: Did you or your father correspond with the members he left behind?
LEOPOLD: He did not, to the best of my knowledge. He was very young, 16. One of 11 or 9 children. He established a life of his own. He came here… and then I heard at this meeting I attended on Monday at a little family deal… Things came out that I’d never heard of…I heard that in New York where he landed… They told me on Monday that he worked on a ship, and they eventually landed in San Francisco. So that’s what I knew from that point forward what happened to him. Prior to that I didn’t really know.

Frankel: There was not contact, as far as you know, with his parents until the war.
LEOPOLD: Definitely not with his parents. He had a brother that lived in New Jersey. As far as I know, there was not communication between the two of them. This was in the early 1900s.

Frankel: So you never met anyone from your father’s family?
LEOPOLD: None. Nobody. My niece has been in touch with an offshoot of part of my father’s family in Argentina and some in Florida. But I don’t think any of those are part of a brother who lived in New Jersey. As far as the other brothers and sisters, I don’t know anything about them. That’s what I’m in the process of learning now.

Frankel: Anything else you would like to add about your life or your sense of the community?
LEOPOLD: The community is good. It really is good. I assure you there are a lot of places that are not up to our standards here. It changed a little bit, but by and large, it’s in good shape. I’m very involved now with taking physical therapy and I had a recovery from back surgery at the Robison Home. Taking that on as a little bit of my responsibility, being a fair contribution to the building of the new facility. They could have treated me nicer. [unintelligible]

Heidi: Just for the kids… tell an example of how you learned to work hard when you were younger.
LEOPOLD: Well, it may come to a shock to them because they are all [unintelligible] than I was. I’ll never forget my sister Surretta telling me, she was standing there, when I asked my dad if I could get 15 cents which got me a ticket to go to the Egyptian Theater which was on…currently on Martin Luther King Blvd. Which included 10 cents for the movie and 5 cents to get some candy. My sister told me at that time, I must have been seven or eight, still labors with me, “If you want to go to the movie, you go out and earn the money.” Just like that.  It never escaped me because that was the beginning of my working.

Heidi: How did you earn the money when you were that age?
LEOPOLD: I started selling magazines door to door.

Heidi: At eight years old?
LEOPOLD: Yes.

Heidi: How do you think you were so resourceful to find these opportunities when you were young? Like to sell magazines or to sell candy?
LEOPOLD: I learned. You ask questions and that’s how you find out. If I saw somebody my age doing something a little bit different, I’d ask them. For example, when I stopped selling magazines I was told you can make little more per sale if you sold the Seattle PI newspaper because there were people living down here from Seattle. So I sold a few of those for a while. When we moved to the west side, I got the Oregon Journal paper route.

Frankel: Is that something that a lot of Jewish kids did?
LEOPOLD: Yes, a lot of my friends did.

Frankel: Who was some of your friends?
LEOPOLD: There was Leo Richenstein. There was Dave Sachter. He was station manager part street station which is by the old Lincoln High School. And Jerome Stern. Just recently passed away. 

Frankel: So did you all have your territory where you sold them?
LEOPOLD: Yes, you had your paper route which was 503, 522 which is mine, whatever they were. they were the districts that you could do.

Frankel: I was thinking you were so young. In those days parents weren’t worried about their kids.
LEOPOLD: Not at all. I was not afraid to walk to the Neighborhood House and come home at night and sometimes it was dark. Alan Lipman was a friend of mine. I’d go by his house, which was a quarter, 25% the way to the Neighborhood House. We’d walk together there, come back afterward, and I’d walk the rest of the 25%. If you wanted to go to a movie downtown or school, you’d walk. There were no buses. 

Frankel: Your parents didn’t have a car?
LEOPOLD: They did have a car, but my dad used the car. It’s the way we got by. Actually it was a truck.

Heidi: You told a story once about wanting to buy shoes. Remember you had some shoes that you wanted?
LEOPOLD: Yes. In high school the number one style was British Grogs shoes. They were imported. There was a place called Armishaw that handled them. As I recall, I didn’t have enough money to start with, so I saved up to buy that pair of shoes because I wanted them. I couldn’t ask my folks for money; they didn’t have any money. Enough to eat and pay rent.

Frankel: Did you feel you were poor?
LEOPOLD: I don’t think we were poor, no not at all. It was touch and go at that time. We were not alone. Everybody else was the same way or our family and friends. There were people who lived on Portland Heights, most of which went to the Temple and they were not in our immediate circle. So what they did and what we did were two different things.

Frankel: There was not socializing between those two communities?
LEOPOLD: In the high school there was some, yes. But again, when it came to socializing. I didn’t have much time for that. Get out of school, 3:00, 3:30 or whatever it was. I’d get home at 6:00. It wasn’t like it was today that you had a bunch of homework, but that was the relaxation time or the athletic time. We would go to the Jewish Community or the B’nai B’rith Lodge or B’nai B’rith Building and play basketball, wintertime. Summertime, Dunaway Park, play softball.

Heidi: Would you work like 5 days a week too?
LEOPOLD: Yes. Wouldn’t have a day off except, Sunday. Saturday, the time of the wholesale can and tobacco, I’d would spend much time on Saturday doing that. possibly played softball or what have you.
Heidi: When you worked, you gave money to your parents.
LEOPOLD: No, as a matter of fact very little. I gave them money to subsist myself. But I didn’t ask them for much money.

Heidi: When you had the car business, then you helped.
LEOPOLD: Then I helped support my mother, yes. My father passed away. The first couple of years when Rhoda and I were married, the little money I made during those days, I helped my mother out and paid her apartment.

Heidi: You helped Nanny out, too.
LEOPOLD: That’s subsequent to that.

Frankel: Thank you very much.
LEOPOLD: You’re welcome

Frankel: I appreciate your questions as well.
Heidi: Thank you. This was such a gift for us, really.