Madeline Brill Nelson

Weinstein: Just tell me who you are and what the day is and . . .
NELSON: My name is Madeline Nelson [Laschy?] and today is September 22nd. Elaine Weinstein is here with me, and we’re talking.

Weinstein: So we were talking about Rabbi Berkowitz and the spirit that the young people had about him. I’m curious to know about young people from other congregations. For instance, did you socialize much with young people from other congregations?
NELSON: Not to my recollection. My dad was a friend of Rabbi Geller’s, and occasionally he and his wife came to our home for dinner. Other than that, I don’t remember that there were any get-togethers through Sunday school. Of course, my memory at age 80 is not all it should be.

Weinstein: You and I go back about 30 years with the Braille services. But getting back to your childhood, where did you live? Where did you grow up?
NELSON: I grew up on the corner of Montgomery Drive and Jackson Street. It was a house that my late grandfather had purchased in the late teens from a family named Hauser, and that was where he and mother lived when my mother married and continued to be where my mother and dad and grandfather lived until he passed away.

Weinstein: When did you leave that house?
NELSON: I left that house in 1946 when I married Roscoe Nelson, July of ’46.

Weinstein: Where did you go to school?
NELSON: Hillside, Catlin, and Stanford University. I had all the arrangements made to go to one of the Pomona colleges [Claremont Colleges], Scripps, and my cousin Jerry Brill, to whom I was really very close, said that you have to have rocks in your head to go to another girls’ school after going to a girls’ school for four years. He was a Stanford graduate, and I decided that he was right; I applied to Stanford, and, fortunately, I got in.

Weinstein: Did you like it there? What did you study?
NELSON: I was a bacteriology-biology/biochemistry major. Actually, Roscoe Nelson and I were very close to engagement in 1942 and he was going into the Army, and I was ready to get married and to follow him. He said, “No.” I would always be disappointed if I didn’t finish college, and he didn’t know where he would be, in this country or abroad. So I went to summer school to get through faster and graduated in 1945, but I was in the class of 1946. I worked on campus for my biochemistry professor until Roscoe came back. He came back in May, and we were married in July.

Weinstein: Where did you meet Roscoe? Tell me about that.
NELSON: That was a long-time family relationship. Roscoe’s dad was the family attorney, and my dad was the Nelson family’s physician.

Weinstein: Were you close in age?
NELSON: No, we were 11 years apart.

Weinstein: I’m going to get somewhat personal, but did you always know that you wanted to marry him?
NELSON: Pretty much. I think my dad and Roscoe’s dad made up their minds that this was going to happen because we had no reason to question it. It just fell into place. I never met anyone over the four years [while he was in the Army] who erased him from my mind. He was always there.

Weinstein: Sweet story. How long were you married?
NELSON: 41 years.

Weinstein: Tell me about your life after you were married. Was he in school?
NELSON: He was already in practice. Interesting to me, he had several Japanese clients, and he worked very hard to maintain their financial positions for them while they were sent to camps. Fortunately, he was able to have several members of his law firm continue with this work while he was away. It meant a great deal to him as it was his father’s law firm — Dey, Hampson, and Nelson — where he was practicing. When they came back from the internment camp, they were able to take up their lives and not find everything gone.

Weinstein: Did you have any personal experience with his Japanese clients?
NELSON: Yes. There was one couple who went to Reed College, and he went to medical school, and they moved up to Alaska. We used to see them occasionally, and still to this day, we visit with current family members.

Weinstein: Did you ask them about their experiences?
NELSON: No. Maybe I am too sensitive to ask them. I don’t want to hear the horrors they went through.

Weinstein: Did you socialize with other Jewish couples? I’m trying to get to whether you had a Jewish or an assimilated life.
NELSON: Some of Roscoe’s clients who were not Jewish were our friends. Gerda and Frank Eiseman, who came here as refugees, became our friends.

Weinstein: What kind of social things did you do?
NELSON: We played Bridge, went to dances at the Multnomah Club. We entertained in friends’ homes. Roscoe was a musician, and once he heard a voice, he never forgot it. He was active on the opera board and symphony board. This kind of community work gave him great pleasure.

Weinstein: I would like to know more about his family.
NELSON: His parents were born in Richmond, Virginia. His father had a congenital heart condition, and Roscoe went to the University of Virginia Law School. He stayed to practice in Richmond, but the doctors told him the hot summers, more than the cold winters, were not good for him. He came to Portland because of this friend from the University of Virginia, Sydney Teiser, and lived on Vista Avenue. Then he built the house on Georgian Place.

Weinstein: Why did they come out to Oregon?
NELSON: Because of Sydney Teiser.

Weinstein: So you lived all your life on this hill in Portland. And your children, did they go to school in Portland?
NELSON: They went to Ainsworth School. Then Roscoe Jr. went to Lincoln High School and Whitman College and Willamette University Law School. Roz went to Catlin for high school and Occidental College [where she earned her teaching credential with a fifth year of college. She taught in a Beaverton primary school]. She married Jeffrey Babener, and they had three children. She stayed home after the third child was born.

Weinstein: I know that Roz has been involved in all kinds of community activities, but I would like to go back and ask you about the activities your family was involved in.
NELSON: My mother was a Grey Lady at what’s now OHSU, the University of Oregon School of Medicine. Dad gave a great deal of time to helping people; it was his way of life to help people. I enjoyed my years as a Campfire Girl, so I gravitated toward that organization. I was on the local and then the national board. Then I started the Braille. I started doing the recording first. I was on the Sisterhood board and then started doing service for the blind. I was on the Sisterhood board when Rabbi Nodel, who moved to Hawaii, did those wonderful book reviews, and I was in charge of those reviews. When the rabbi left, I was a board member without portfolio, and that’s how I got to the handicapped service.

Weinstein: Was Miriam Rosenfeld involved with the Braille Service? That must have been in the 1960s. Did you take classes?
NELSON: Yes. After I did the taping for a year or so, I took lessons and started learning Braille. Janet Blumenfeld and Jan Orloff were also in on the early days of learning Braille. After we moved from the rooms at the temple, we moved several times when the program needed more space. We were working for the public schools, but there was an objection to having a connection to one specific religious group. We never did sever our ties to Beth Israel, because the Sisterhood was wonderful in support of the Braille Project [but we brailled for the public schools and the community at large as well.]

Weinstein: I remember at one time the Braille workshop was held at the Beach School. So what kind of brailling did you do?
NELSON: And then we were also on Belmont or Hawthorne. We had nice accommodations there. I started with The Rise of the American Nation for high school history classes, and that intrigued me because it required maps and illustrations. It was necessary to simplify and create different textures and surfaces. I remember one map I did of explorers in the world. The outline of the world map was part of it, and the explorers’ routes were done with string. Part of it was making knots in the string — some close together, some far apart — anything that could make a difference in the surface.

Weinstein: And a teacher had to translate all that for the students.
NELSON: That’s right. They did have itinerant teachers who worked with the students part of the day.

Weinstein: I remember a teacher named Evelyn Cooper who, when I was doing Braille and I had small children and no car, would come to my house and pick things up. She was an itinerant teacher. It was primitive when you think about it now.
NELSON: It was primitive, and now there are machines that do that and process the duplicating that we also did. The machine we used to duplicate did it with heat. You take a piece of plastic the same size as the Braille page, turn the machine on, and the plastic would melt over the original Braille page, and the dots and lines would show up. The plastic was very sturdy and could be used by a number of students.

Weinstein: Did you incorporate your studies of biochemistry in your volunteer work, or did you work in that field at all?
NELSON: When I was at school in my sophomore year I worked for my biochemistry professor; we were trying to isolate the polio virus. We had a laboratory, and we injected the virus into the nervous system of the cotton rat, a very large-sized rat and a resident of Florida. Its size allowed us to work with a large amount of material. We worked with the spinal cord. We had to kill the rat to take out the cord, and from there we used ultracentrifuges and ultramicroscopes. It was not an easy thing to do, but these techniques were well established in the laboratory. I never did like working with the rats, but we wore heavy gloves and used forceps, so it was quite safe if not too pleasant. Ultimately the virus was pulled out, and we gave it to the researcher who was getting his Ph.D. He was the one who did the [purifying so it could be used as a vaccine on animals.]

Weinstein: Did you ever incorporate your studies in life? Did you use your scientific background in your ordinary life?
NELSON: I did find I could zero in on things and solve particular kinds of problems. 

NELSON: I did work in my early married life and then became pregnant with Roscoe Jr. and stopped.

Weinstein: Were there many women in the field at that time?
NELSON: No, not too many actually. Stanford had the Army Student Training Program at the time, and most of my classes were taken up by these students, all male and military. I knew that Dad was a pioneer in typing blood, so that was a great place to start for the short time I was working there. But to go back to the discussion of school helping you in life, I think school has a great deal of influence in life. I know liberal arts programs are encouraged by parents so they [students] will experience more of a broad education and learn how to think.

Weinstein: Do you have any thoughts about the changes in women’s lives?
NELSON: I certainly am in favor of women working in fields traditionally considered male.

Weinstein: Did you ever feel inhibited because you were a woman?
NELSON: No, the world was our oyster at Stanford. There was no discouragement about going into any field, and I appreciated that. I remember an anecdote in line with your last question. My husband Roscoe was going into court, and the opposing attorney was a young woman. Roscoe held the door for her at one point, and she looked at him and said, “What do you think I am, a cripple?” I thought to myself, “Why can’t you relax and enjoy what you are doing and stop being so defensive?” Another time another young woman lawyer on the opposite side of the case Roscoe was working on responded, when he asked the woman what he should call her —Ms., Mrs., Miss — that her marital status was none of his business. And again, I thought, “Oh, dear.” But that was a long time ago. Since then, we have a lovely young woman lawyer in the family, my grandson’s wife, and I have several good women friends who are physicians.

Weinstein: It’s hardly an issue anymore. Getting back to your life, when you were in school, did you experience any antisemitism?
NELSON: Yes, I did experience antisemitism in grammar school. My mother made a phone call and that helped. It isn’t anyone I have a relationship with, although he is still around Portland today. I think in grammar school and high school many of my friends were Jewish, but in college most of my friends were not Jewish.

Weinstein: Did you date non-Jewish men? Did your parents forbid you from dating non-Jews?
NELSON: No, and they knew my only serious relationship was [Roscoe, and he was] in the Army.

Weinstein: What about the Great Depression? Did it have any influence on your life?
NELSON: Yes, it was very early in my life, but it did affect us.

Weinstein: You mentioned earlier that you considered your father a pioneer physician. Could you tell me why?
NELSON: He was a cardiologist, and he used to carry a portable electrocardiogram when he went to see patients on the weekends. I used to go with him when he visited patients just because I think Dad wanted the company. I used to enjoy going with him. He did early blood typing work. When he was growing up in Poland, he observed the awe and reverence with which the people regarded the visiting physician. He made up his mind then that he was going to be a doctor. He was an excellent writer. He was involved with several research projects, two of which he went to Los Angeles for, for long periods of time. He was an excellent writer, and any time doctors’ research papers were rejected, he was asked to rewrite the papers, and they were accepted. He was upset when my mother smoked, and he objected when my sister and I sat in the sun. He trimmed all the fat from our food and said that orange juice, fresh air, and exercise would keep us healthy. He had many ideas that were far ahead of his time.

Weinstein: Was your mother involved in activities or organizations?
NELSON: She was a Gray Lady at OHSU and worked at the Red Cross, Sisterhood on fundraisers. She liked to play Mah Jong and Bridge. One group met at Frances and Miriam Jacobs’, and they had a home where the Ione Plaza in now. I remember picking her up from there.

Weinstein: Are you still friends with some of your girlhood friends?
NELSON: One of my longtime friends was Leah Durkheimer. Also Janet Sternberg Blumenfeld and Jane Flaxman. Leah and I were blessed together at our confirmation. Our parents were longtime friends, so it goes back to our early childhood. It’s really wonderful to have friends for so many years. Of course, Gerda and Frank were our friends for many years.

Weinstein: Was Stuart Durkheimer at Stanford when you were there?
NELSON: He is older than me. He finished in June, and I went down in September. His sister Eloise was there. They were near neighbors. So were the Lawrence Sellings, and Dad and Lawrence (Bud) Selling were friends and doctor buddies.

Weinstein: Did you take part in any athletics?
NELSON: I played tennis and was on the Catlin team, such as it was. Roscoe played golf, and he gave me a set of clubs. I played dutifully, but I never enjoyed the golf. [I enjoyed Roscoe’s company.]

Weinstein: What about travel? Did you travel a lot?
NELSON: We had a couple of trips a year. We flew to Lisbon and rented a car and drove to Spain. We did that in France also. We didn’t take tours until we went to China, India, and Russia because we didn’t feel we could drive on our own. We had a wonderful family trip in England when Roscoe Jr. was sixteen. We flew to London and experienced the American Bar program there and then drove 2,000 miles, and Roscoe Jr. did most of the driving. Roscoe and his dad were in the front seat, and Roz and I sat in the back. It was so nice to have both the children with us. In those days you could walk around Stonehenge, and in Greece you could walk through the Parthenon. A lot of these places are barricaded now; you could walk around, but not inside. In the early years there weren’t that many tourists, and they were better behaved than they are now. 

Weinstein: What other things should I ask you? We could go on and on.
NELSON: I could tell you that Roscoe’s dad was the one who raised the issue of social justice among the Union of American Hebrew Congregations. He was very active.

Weinstein: So he was a very liberal thinker. Was that a difficult thing?
NELSON: If it was difficult, I wasn’t told that it was. He was a real orator, and he could make wonderful cases for whatever he argued about.

Weinstein: Were there any local groups he was involved in?
NELSON: He passed away before Roscoe and I were married, but his mother lived with us after we were married, and she was president of the Sisterhood for ten years. She had a long and active role with the Beth Israel Sisterhood, and she lived with us until she died.

Weinstein: I found in a file in the Oregon Jewish Museum that [your dad, Dr. Isidor Brill] became a life member of the Jewish Community Center, sometime in the 1970s, and it praised your dad. He was involved in Jewish education. Fill me in on that.
NELSON: It was a supportive one financially. He was always interested in Jewish education. I think he was on the board of the Jewish Education Association. He started a chair of medicine at St. Vincent’s Hospital, which bears his name. He also taught at the medical school for many years and ran a clinic so that the medical students could get actual office experience.

Weinstein: Your home is beautiful and is filled with beautiful art. Has collecting always been a part of your life?
NELSON: I didn’t start collecting, but my mother always loved to have beautiful things around her. When I married Roscoe and moved into the house on Georgian Place, it was a complete home, and there wasn’t much I could do. After Roscoe passed away [in 1991], and after I gave the children what they wanted, I moved, and I had room to add the things that I enjoyed, and it’s been about 11 or 12 years.

Weinstein: It’s such an interesting mixture of Asian and modern, old and contemporary, and the fine arts; it’s a mixture.
NELSON: These things came from the Georgian Place and Montgomery Place homes. Both Jim and I enjoy them.

Weinstein: Tell me briefly about when you met Jim. How did you meet him? Did you live in this house before you met Jim?
NELSON: No. We met at the Multnomah Club walking group. We knew one another for two years before we married. I remember my first date with Jim. He was president of the mycological society here [Oregon Mycological Society], and our first date was a trip up to Mt. Adams. He picked me up. It was quite a drive, and we spent the day hunting, going from mushroom place to mushroom place. I had a coupon for a southeast Chinese place out on NE 82nd and never expected to redeem it. He picked me up at 6:30 AM in the morning, and we returned at 10:00 PM that night. I never in the world expected to be dating. It did seem funny to be dating, but we had walked together and talked together and “coffeed” with the rest of the group, so it wasn’t as strange as it might have been. Neither one of us expected to be married again. Jim had had a good life and lost his wife to cancer, just as I lost Roscoe to cancer. Our kids were grown, and we were enjoying the life we were leading. We did not have the expectation of getting married again.

Weinstein: I really enjoyed the time visiting with you, and I hope I wasn’t too hard on you. We will ask you to review the transcription of this tape for any errors or omissions. The transcript may take several months. It’s a slow process. The tape will be part of the archives and will be available to researchers. If you have garments or mementos you would like to share — garments, theater programs, etc. — they would be welcome.
NELSON: The Oregon Historical Society has mother’s wedding dress. I did give some of mother Nelson’s things to Beth Israel.

Weinstein: Even old recipes are welcome. Shirley Tanzer, who founded the Oral History Project, used to say that “memory is survival.” I want to thank you very much.
NELSON: You are very welcome.