Min Mudrick Zidell

Danab: What was your place of birth?
ZIDELL: Washington, D.C.

Danab: And the date?
ZIDELL: 12/20/23

Danab: And so were your parents immigrants?
ZIDELL: Yes.

Danab: Where did they come from?
ZIDELL: Russia, Poland depending upon who owned it at the time, you know, like most of them did.

Danab: And how did you come to Oregon?
ZIDELL: I came here when I was six months old because my mother and five other siblings came over here. My father had passed away before I was born, and she had a couple brothers living out here. So she came out here. 

Danab: What part of town did you live in?
ZIDELL: Southwest, where, at that particular time, all the Jewish people were living.

Danab: So it was along where Macadam is?
ZIDELL: Right.

Danab: Tell me about your household when you were growing up. What was your family life like?
ZIDELL: Typical, I would say. My older brother sort of took the place of our father and started really supporting us and taking care of us at a very early age. We did not have very much, although we didn’t know that we were poor. We seemed to get along fairly well. The only thing that didn’t materialize, I think, the way that we all would have liked it to be was that I could not go to college. And so my education was through high school, and that was it. And then everybody went to work.

Danab: You wanted to go to college but couldn’t? 
ZIDELL: I’m a frustrated surgical nurse is what I am. In fact, a few years ago I got the opportunity to see Dr. Starr perform open-heart surgery, standing right there next to him. 

Danab: So you’ve been interested in medicine.
ZIDELL: Yes, probably from the eighth grade I would say, extremely interested, questioning it a lot. We went down to Salem to the Fairview House. I don’t know whether you’re familiar with that or not. It’s people that are mentally ill, and I went there when I was in eighth grade. We had a field trip down there. I saw some things that really bothered me and sort of awakened some thoughts, and [I] regret it all the more that I couldn’t get to college.

Danab: So that was one of the limitations. Even now people need money to go to college.
ZIDELL: Oh, no question about it. But in those days you didn’t have the scholarships that you have now. You didn’t have the government loans that you have now. All of that you supplied yourself, or your family. We couldn’t quite fit in there.

Danab: Did your family belong to one of the congregations?
ZIDELL: Shaarie Torah. And then, after I got married, I joined Neveh Zedek or Neveh Shalom or Ahavai Shalom, I’m not sure which name they were using. Because that’s where my husband belonged, so we joined there.

Danab: And what do you remember about the congregation where your family went when you were young. Were you part of any youth group there?
ZIDELL: No. Probably the most outstanding thing, I know this sounds ridiculous, was on Yom Kippur, when all the kids went around with their apples that had cloves in them, you know, so that you’re not supposed to get hungry while you’re fasting. The women were upstairs; it was a traditional orthodox synagogue.

Danab: Were there any community activities associated with the synagogue.
ZIDELL: I don’t think so. If there were any we were not involved in any of them.

Danab: Did you have any kind of a religious education?
ZIDELL: Oh yes, I’m a graduate of the Hebrew School. Spent eight years going there. In fact, I still retain a little of my ability to read Hebrew. I don’t always understand what I’m reading. But yes, eight years is a long time. And part of that was going to Friday night services at what is today the Robison Home. The Old People’s Home I think they used to call it. I don’t even remember, truthfully speaking. But it required us to go to Friday night services there so that the people who were staying there would have a minyan.

Danab: And did you enjoy doing that?
ZIDELL: I don’t know whether I enjoyed it. It was just something that you did because you were supposed to.

Danab: And what was Jewish life like in your home?  Did you celebrate holidays at home?
ZIDELL: Yes, not to the extent that we did later on. But we had the basic holidays. It came Passover, and you schlepped all the dishes from downstairs and brought them upstairs because they were the Passover dishes. Same thing that went on in everybody’s home of the same…financial standing, let’s put it that way.

Danab: So you would do the preparations for Passover by getting the hametz out? Would you do that as well as change the dishes? Would you go through the cupboards and clean it out?
ZIDELL: Yes, not as thoroughly as some people do, but yes.

Danab: And so you had an older brother, and how many other siblings?
ZIDELL: There were three of the family that came over when my mother did. And then when she came over to Washington, then she had three more. So there were a total of six of us. And my older brother and older sister took over the responsibility of taking care of us.

Danab: Of the younger children?
ZIDELL:  Yes, and the household. My mother did not speak English, and so that made it even more important for the two older ones to take over.

Danab: So did she speak Yiddish?
ZIDELL: Yes.

Danab: Do you still understand Yiddish?
ZIDELL: I understand a fair amount of it. [We] had an interesting experience maybe eight, nine years ago; we discovered a cousin from Israel. We did not know he existed, he did not know we existed, but we were able to put this connection together. And my first conversation with his mother was in Yiddish. And, believe me that was a nerve-wracking conversation that we had, because I hadn’t spoken Yiddish in a long time. But I could understand a good portion of it, particularly if they talk slowly enough.

Danab: So your mother never learned English at all, she just stuck with Yiddish?
ZIDELL: No.

Danab: So were there enough people in the community that spoke Yiddish that she could . . .?
ZIDELL: Oh yes, the majority of that age group all spoke Yiddish. That was no problem. I’m sure it was more difficult for her, but as far as the conversation, you know, we all spoke Yiddish at home.

Danab: My grandparents spoke Yiddish at home so I’m very fond of the language. I know words but I don’t . . . It’s hard for me to . . .
ZIDELL: If you know Yiddish . . . That was when parents didn’t want the kids to understand something, out came the Yiddish.

Danab: Exactly. So do you remember anything about other holidays? What was Hanukkah like at your home?
ZIDELL: Nothing terrific. You know, if you don’t have the means to celebrate, a lot of these holidays, they sort of come and go.

Danab: Did you have latkes?
ZIDELL: Probably, you know we’re going back a long time. My memory’s not that good anyway at this stage; I’m sure we must have. We did the basic things for the holidays. You do the best you can.

Danab: I know with every holiday there’s an associated food. Did your mother cook?
ZIDELL: Umm hmm. Terrible cook, wonderful baker, but a lousy cook. Like most of them, they all cooked the food well done, very well done.

Danab: Yes, I remember my grandmother’s kosher chicken boiled very well. So did she make a good hamantaschen?
ZIDELL:  You know, I don’t really recall having any hamantaschen until I started making my own. You know, when my kids were ready to get in line and help. But I don’t remember. When I get together with my sister and brother, our versions of our childhood [are] so different that you’d think we were brought up in different homes. They remember things that I don’t. I remember things that they don’t. So I really don’t remember. If you were to ask my brother, boy, he could tell you whether we had them or not.

Danab: What about your going to school in Portland. Where did you go to school?
ZIDELL: Shattuck and then Lincoln.

Danab: And what was your experience at Lincoln High School?
ZIDELL: Terrible. I was too young to be there. I graduated when I was 16, and I was too young and went to the wrong school. I went to Lincoln, which is a college prep school, and there was no way I was going to be able to do that, and so actually I was really at the wrong high school.

Danab: Is that because of your intelligence that you were placed at a college prep school?
ZIDELL: Oh no, in those days you weren’t placed at all; you just went wherever you wanted to go.

Danab: Oh you just went?
ZIDELL: Almost. No, I went to Lincoln because my oldest brother was hopeful that I might be able to get to college, but things didn’t work out.

Danab: And were there a lot of other Jewish students?
ZIDELL: At Lincoln? Oh golly, yes. Biggest percentage probably, a lot of Jewish kids there. Shattuck was right in the middle of South Portland, and that’s where, when the immigrants came over, that’s where they settled because that’s where some relative was who was guaranteeing their livelihood here. And so we almost all went to Lincoln. It was interesting how it progressed, though. Those who became a little more . . . wealthy, I’ll use that word, they moved on to Northeast Portland. And those that could afford it shifted over there. From Northeast they went to Southwest up in the hills. So it was interesting the way they all migrated together, those that could.

Danab: So Northeast, like the historic neighborhood there?
ZIDELL: Irvington, yes.

Danab: And were there any other institutions beside the synagogues that were part of your life growing up?
ZIDELL: The Jewish Community Center was. That’s where just about all of the activities took place, you know, a little bit older. [They] entertained the servicemen when the war was going on. That was where every Sunday afternoon they had dances for the servicemen.

Danab: Do you remember any other events they had?
ZIDELL: BB Juniors, the boys had AZA. My childhood and my upbringing really was no different than any. You probably could have picked any ten people, and the answers probably would have been pretty close to being the same.

Danab: Is there anything that stands out in your mind in terms of an event or something that happened there that was fun or particularly memorable?
ZIDELL: Oh certainly, I was voted Queen Esther when I was 15 years old, 16 years old. When we had graduation from Hebrew School, I got the gold medal. Just things that happened in everybody’s home.

Danab: So, Queen Esther, was this something that people voted on?
ZIDELL: Yes.

Danab: Was it a contest, did you have to submit something?
ZIDELL: [Laughing] A lot of votes.

Danab: But you didn’t have to prepare anything or make any speeches? It wasn’t like running for an election?
ZIDELL: Oh golly no.

Danab: Was it more just like who people thought deserved it?
ZIDELL: It’s a dance that they used to have every year at Purim time. The gal who became queen, therefore was Queen Esther. And it was various girl organizations that were going at the time. Depending upon your family, you know, “it’s not what you know, but who you know.” If you could get enough people to vote for you, you became Queen Esther.

Danab: So it sounds like you were popular.
ZIDELL: Not really.

Danab: Or there were enough people that liked you that voted you queen.
ZIDELL: I guess so.

Danab: Were you close to anybody in particular in high school, good friends?
ZIDELL: I could show you a picture that was taken – my sister and I both graduated at the same time -taken at a lunch that we had at home just before we graduated high school. And two of the people in that picture just recently passed away. Which meant that we had been friends for about 80 years.

Danab: Oh my.
ZIDELL: Oh yes.

Danab: That’s lovely.
ZIDELL: Umm hmm, it was until, unfortunately, Alzheimer’s took over.

Danab: That’s sad. And do you remember, growing up, the important historical things such as the Japanese internment that happened during the war?
ZIDELL: No.

Danab: Did you know people?
ZIDELL: No, I didn’t.

Danab: What was the feeling in your community about what was happening with that?
ZIDELL: Well, I think there was that segment that were a little scared, possibly. And then I think there were those that felt that what they did was not the smartest thing to do. It’s pro and con, any political issue. And everybody’s entitled to their opinion. Just like what’s going on today. You turn on the TV and you hear this group of commentators that tell you what they did was not right, and this says it was great.

Danab: Umm hmm, it’s the same kind of thing. And what about the Civil Rights Movement?
ZIDELL: I wasn’t too involved in that.

Danab: Were you aware of things that were going on in Portland in terms of how minorities were treated or anything like that?
ZIDELL: Oh sure. It would be difficult not to when you have a sister who is told when she applies for a job that if she wants to put down on her application something other than “Jewish,” they could hire her. But if she insisted on putting down “Jewish,” they couldn’t hire her. So you understand a little bit about what was going on.

Danab: Did you experience any discrimination like that yourself?
ZIDELL: I don’t think so. I can’t recall any specific things, other than you knew that it was there, and when, after I got married and we were looking for our first house . . . I wanted the kids to understand that there were places that they could not be living and know that there was a reason for it.

Danab: Portland real estate was redlined in terms of where Jewish people could live or not?
ZIDELL: Oh I think it might still be a little bit. And certainly there were a lot of organizations, particularly social organizations, that you couldn’t get into. And again, that’s what was happening all over.

Danab: What about women’s rights issues? Were you aware of that?
ZIDELL: Well, you know, another example of that was when my oldest daughter graduated law school and went to apply for a job and was told, emphatically, that she could not worry about getting the job, because they wouldn’t hire her because she was a woman. But I think all families have gone through various things like this. And there was enough of it that everybody had to be aware of it. It isn’t anything that you can hide.

Danab: What about Zionism? Was Zionism important to your family?
ZIDELL: No.

Danab: Or your community; was your congregation supportive of the State of Israel?
ZIDELL: I’m going to assume that they were; I can’t pinpoint any specific incidents.

Danab: Do you remember when Israel became a state?
ZIDELL: I was over there when they celebrated their 50th anniversary, was it? I became more involved with Jewish organizations [and] Jewish functions after I got married and the kids were old enough. They started Sunday School, and a spin off of that was that our household became much more Jewish.

Danab: So tell me about how you got work after high school.
ZIDELL: Let me see, my first job was with a company called something supply company. I was a secretary there, and from there I went to Portland General Electric, hired as a secretary, but they gave me a file clerk job which I didn’t like. I quit. And then I went to work for Zidell’s and then was smart enough to marry the boss’s son. [Laughter]

Danab: That’s how you met your husband?
ZIDELL: Right.

Danab: And how did that come about? You were working as a secretary there and…?
ZIDELL: He was in the service at the time, and when he came back, of course, he came down to the office, and the employees that were there all felt, I guess, a responsibility to see that the two of us met. And so each person would invite us for dinner but not telling the other one that the other one was going to be there. And that’s how we met.

Danab: Oh, lovely. So people thought that you would be perfect for each other.
ZIDELL: Oh, absolutely. [Laughter]

Danab: That’s nice when community helps get people together.
ZIDELL: Well, this really wasn’t community; this was the employees.

Danab: This was your work community.
ZIDELL: Right.

Danab: So you continued to work at the business?
ZIDELL: A short period of time. And quickly discovered that it’s not a good policy to have the boss’s wife working there because everybody was sure you were down there as a plant to see what was going on, [if they] were they doing their job and all of that. So I just worked there for a short time after I got married.

Danab: And then you started raising a family, it sounds like. How many children did you have?
ZIDELL: Three. Three children, seven grandchildren, no great grandchildren.

Danab: Great. Not yet you mean?
ZIDELL: I don’t think I ever will. [Laughter] I don’t know if I can hang on that long.

Danab: How did you raise your children? It sounded like they had a Jewish education as well?
ZIDELL: Yes. They did not go to Hebrew School, however. But their Jewish education was taught by me.

Danab: So did you teach them how to read Hebrew?
ZIDELL: They knew how to read a little bit of Hebrew. But if you don’t use it, you’re going to forget it. At Passover when we have our Seder, I read the Hebrew parts, and the others read the English parts. [It] works out just fine.

Danab: So it was mostly through the celebration of Jewish holidays that the children learned. In addition to that, how did you educate them?
ZIDELL: Between Sunday School and the observance of the holidays at home.

Danab: It sounds like you were pretty involved in the community as well, with the synagogue and with the Jewish Community Center.
ZIDELL: Not with the Community Center too much. Any of my volunteering time was really through the synagogue. I was Sisterhood President for two and a half years, I think. And did a fair amount of volunteering there; I started a lot of different things.

Danab: What kind of things?
ZIDELL: Oh, I started the gift shop. I started, this sounds terrible, but shifted over to purchasing shrouds instead of getting the people to make them. Because as the women were getting older, there were very few that knew how to do that. And so I eventually found a place where we ordered the shrouds. Just a lot of different things, really.

Danab: Can you remember any particular activities that stand out in your mind as being particularly fun?
ZIDELL: You’re limiting this to Jewish I assume?

Danab: Yes, the Jewish Museum is most interested in Jewish.
ZIDELL: No, I really can’t pinpoint anything. It was just a wonderful period of my life because I was one of these very, very involved mothers. Both at Sunday School and at public school. And I thoroughly enjoyed it. And eventually went into business for myself. I had a gift shop for probably ten years or so, and gave it up because Emery was pretty sick at the time and I had to be home. So, [I] started an organization called Cancer Patient Awareness Program. It was long before anybody else started any of these support groups. And that’s what this was, a support group for people with cancer. I’ve been involved in a lot of medical things, really.

Danab: I noticed that they have a garden at the Natural Medicine School that’s been named in your honor. An herb garden.
ZIDELL: Right, well that’s an interesting story. I have a daughter living down in Palm Springs, and she’s interested in naturopathic medicine. And so she went over and talked to them, wanted something that the family could dedicate; my 80th birthday was coming up. And so they decided on this garden, and the formal dedication will be in June. They’ve had one dedication already, but the formal one will be in June. They had an artist who came over from Japan to make a centerpiece. It’s a statue depicting Eastern and Western medicine joined, the two medicines together, which was very, very surprising to me. I had no idea that was going on. We recently dedicated the alternative medicine garden at St. Vincent. And there’s the PJA – it’s the Min Zidell school. So we’ve been fairly involved.

Danab: Yes, you’ve helped out a lot over the past ten years I’ve noticed with different organizations struggling, you’ve really helped.
ZIDELL: We’ve tried to, yes.

Danab: Yes, it’s much appreciated.
ZIDELL: Oh I’m sure that it is, and I’m glad that we were able to do it.

Danab: And so over all these years in Portland how have you seen the Jewish community change, or what has evolved, or what insights do you have?
ZIDELL: Of course, another generation has taken over. And I could go to services now and not know a single person that is there. Which is both good and bad. Great that another generation has taken over but . . . And of course being confined to this chair doesn’t help getting around either. I think part of the population is very, very involved with synagogue. I watch some of these kids when they do go to services. I watch some of these kids go through this Hebrew like crazy. They know exactly what they’re saying and what they’re doing. So I think that part of it is great. I think we have too many splinter groups. You’ve got 16, I believe, different synagogues. I would imagine it does pull one from another a little bit. 

Danab: So when you were growing up how many synagogues were there in Portland?
ZIDELL: Three, oh four! Ahavai Shalom, Neveh Zedek, Temple [Congregation Beth Israel], Shaarie Torah. But it has certainly expanded, and I suppose in a way it’s good because it satisfies the needs of the majority of people. And unfortunately, at this stage of my life I do not go to the synagogue very often. Things change.

Danab: In terms of the changes do you see that they’ve been better or worse?
ZIDELL: Mixture of both. 

Danab: What kind of advice would you give to a young person just getting bar or bat mitzvahed in terms of how to contribute to the Jewish community here. What would be your hopes and dreams for people to help the community?
ZIDELL: Let me see, what do my grandkids do? I think just to be involved, to understand a little bit more about the religion. There are a lot of different things that they could become involved in, and I find it’s the same nucleus, as it always has been. If a person is active, they’re going to be active in everything. And if they’re not active, I don’t think you can make them active. And see my kids, my grandkids, I’m very, very proud of what they’ve done. Not a lot of it is involved in Judaism. But on the other hand, the things that they do and have done – you know, you’ve got your basic support of places like PJA and places like that. My older daughter volunteers at St. Vincent in the cancer department that has opened up next to the mammogram where they sell various things for people who have breast cancer, basically. So she works there, volunteers there. Very, very diversified interests, really. Just a wonderful gal, she really is.

Danab: Doing service work?
ZIDELL: Umm hmm.

Danab: Which is in keeping with Jewish values.
ZIDELL: At times, yes. She’s a terrific gal.

Danab: Well are there any other thoughts that you have about the Jewish community in Portland?
ZIDELL: I could say just one thing, and it’s not very nice of me to say this. But I don’t think they are as philanthropic as they could be. And it bothers me when I see someone who has the means to be philanthropic and they reserve that for their contributions to the opera or the symphony or something like that, non-Jewish places. And I think they need an education – “why you have to give” and “how you should give” to the Jewish organizations.

Danab: And you and your family have set a good example of that in terms of your contributions to the Jewish community here.
ZIDELL: We have done it because this is something we wanted to do. There’s a saying, I don’t really know who originated this but it’s, “It’s nice to be important, but it’s more important to be nice.” And in fact, I have that on Emery’s tombstone. If there is an incident where we’ve heard about that somebody needs some help, we have all tried to pitch in and help them out. And I don’t think you find enough of that today, particularly, which is sad. Because if you look at the list of your donors of most of the organizations, once my family dies off, I don’t see any big contributors coming up that can fill that gap. And I think it’s unfortunate that it can’t be done.

Danab: One thing that I thought of which goes back to earlier is your father-in-law, Sam Zidell. Do you have any memories of him or any stories that you could tell about him? Or your husband, for that matter.
ZIDELL: Oh, I could tell you lots of stories about my husband. One of the things – two – that Emery did that I thought was really very, very interesting. He had just come home from the service, and it was Christmas time, just before Christmas. He went to the bank, and he got 50 one dollar bills and went down to South Portland and sat on the corner there, and every time a child walked by he’d give him a dollar bill. Well, the dollar was important, but what Emery didn’t take into consideration was that probably most of those kids that he gave the dollar to were Jewish and weren’t going to celebrate Christmas. But he thought he was…you know, they had an extra dollar, and there was not a lot of money down in South Portland, that’s for sure. So when he was standing on the corner handing out his dollar bills, you know, to any child, he didn’t care who. He has always been that way. If somebody needs help, it doesn’t make any difference whether they’re Jewish or Oriental or whatever. If he could help somebody he does. 

And he bumped into a fellow Seabee one day when he got out of the service. And this was at Good Samaritan Hospital. So you start in: “What are you doing? Why are you up at the hospital?” And this fellow that he was talking to, his wife had just become quite ill, [and] they needed a hospital bed for their house. And the very next day a hospital bed was delivered. These are the kind of things that [he did]. I saw an ad in the paper four years ago on Breast Friends, I think is the name of the organization. Again, because it was medical and because I was interested in it, I started making a contribution to them. I have had a letter from them every year: “Who are you? Why are you doing this?” Because every year at the end of the year I make a contribution to them. You know you don’t have to advertise what you are doing. And I think those contributions that are given quietly and without a lot of fanfare seem to be more meaningful than the big ones. So we just sort of find these little places. Because they don’t get the support that these bigger ones do, and they need it just as badly as some of these real big ones that just keep collecting and collecting.

Danab: It’s a real inspiring tradition in terms of just giving from your heart like that.
ZIDELL: Oh, absolutely. My daughter and her husband at the time and their two kids went to some island and worked in an orphanage for a month. The youngest one was just five years old at the time, and she has shown a peculiar interest in medicine that is just unbelievable to me. Right now she is going to Thatcher down in Ojai [California]. One of their projects in science was to dissect a pig. And the computer was just filled with all these pictures of the pig that she had dissected, and she was the only one in the class (and I don’t know if this is guts or what) but [she] was able to pull the brain out of the pig. For somebody that’s 17 years old, that’s quite an accomplishment. And then they both belong to – I don’t really know what they call the organization, but it’s sponsored by the Fire Department and the Police Department – if there is a fatality of a child, they are called to go and sit with this child and talk to the child. So you know, these are the kind of things that my kids do. It’s not necessarily Jewish however. But you know it all has to be taken care of.

Danab: But it’s what they’re doing [that] fits with Jewish values, which they learned from you. That kind of work is definitely [Jewish].
ZIDELL: Oh, absolutely. They’re interesting kids because they have been fortunately exposed to a lot of different things. They’ve done a tremendous amount of traveling, always to see what the other half of the people or the other half of the country lives like, where you don’t have all the perks that you have here. And they’ve done remarkably well with all that.